Tank Journal Archive
No body mentioned prodbibio or miracle mud so i don't understand why you mentioned the word fad after my comment and now you say it was unrelated however lets let that one go.
I didn't sell the stones they asked about them…and then i answered.
Why wouldn't i recommend something that i have used that worked?
Cost was also not brought up as a concern.
But here is a example of cost.
400L tank
bacteria $80 a year
stones $120 a year
start3 $60 a year
That isn't expensive... to me anyway,
I except that you have a phd and if you want to waive it around to make yourself elitists thats fine but this isn't UNI. Wave your tank pictures around instead cause they tell us more about your tank knowledge than your paper does.
I think you mean chemistry Sir.
Since you are happy to discuss how zeolites work , please explain in laymans terms. Thanks .
Last edited:
People don't understand how corals calcify or how the photosynthesis process works and some people don't even get the nitrogen cycle of tanks so saying that people using zeo use it and don't understand is pretty far fetched simply due to the large amount of gross lack of understanding across the board to do with saltwater ecosystems and corals. Even science can't answer some questions lol so picking on the zeo user is unfair :( haha personally I think it's up the individual whether they want to run any given system with or without the intimate knowledge of it.
Yes zeo products are expensive when you look at them but when you're running the system and don't have a 1000L tank it's a different story, it doesn't work out to be very expensive unless you want to buy every single supplement they produce! Heck a $30 bag of KZ carbon lasts 5 months for my tank and $20 bag of stones is 2 months (longer once the system settles), I'm still using the same 250ml bottle of Start3 I was in March last year and I've got a while to go with it left!! lol As for pumping and dosing, who doesn't look at their tank at least twice a day!? It takes, literally, 2 minutes to complete dosing and pumping. An extra 4 minutes in front of my tank is something I'm not complaining about ;)
Running a reef is not a cheap endeavour and whether you choose the bio-pellet+GFO route or zeo or any number of other product it's going to cost money, some more than others but it's an expensive ordeal all around.
I'm not trying to start a war here or be rude to anyone but I think you're being a little spiteful calling ignorance on those who use a particular system given this hobby is full of ignorance and a lack of knowledge on a lot of things! While I'm like @OSCAR85 and completely recommend the ZEOvit system to anyone who would stop and ask me lol I also try and tell anyone new to the hobby to not undertake it for 6 months to a year as they lack a fundamental understanding in how reef's themselves work and therefore should not be starting another method to learn about on top of that but some are more than capable of it and you can always pick those people out.
Why fix something that ain't broke? At the same rate if you want a bit more oomph then I know what I'm going to recommend to you and it certainly ain't no fad ;) and it's success can't really be argued either, you just have to look at the tanks running it! The same can be said for bio-pellets+phos remover, simple systems and complex systems. It's all aboutt he personal choice of which to use :) They're all good and can work really well but we all know zeo is best :P
woa, totally not trying to wave anything, just seems as though if you dont spend hours on here then your opinion is discounted.
Im sorry if I offended you, was not my intention.
This reaction is beyond agressive so I will just leave the thread.
EDIT.
You know what, I was just trying to help and impart the considerable amount of knowledge I've gained over the years. I am a highly accomplished scientist, with a strong understanding of genetics, cell biology and systems biology. I have read extensively on forums, and in scientific literature in regards to marine biology.
" a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing" applies here and quite frankly I think that this whole forum has degenerated into what it was first created to be above.
Have fun with that.
Im sorry if I offended you, was not my intention.
This reaction is beyond agressive so I will just leave the thread.
EDIT.
You know what, I was just trying to help and impart the considerable amount of knowledge I've gained over the years. I am a highly accomplished scientist, with a strong understanding of genetics, cell biology and systems biology. I have read extensively on forums, and in scientific literature in regards to marine biology.
" a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing" applies here and quite frankly I think that this whole forum has degenerated into what it was first created to be above.
Have fun with that.
Last edited:
My response was not meant to be aggressive or trying to insult anyone, I thought it was a little harsh of you to come out calling people ignorant though.
Everyone's help and input is always appreciated :) especially if you have a more than hobby-level background in this hobby, that seems to be an uncommon thing so losing your input would not be something I would want and I'm sure others would agree with me on that :) But at the same rate you did respond in a similar matter by ousting suggestions made too.
If you were to recommend a plan of action for the OP would it be not change anything and keep things chugging along nicely like I think you suggested in your original post? Given the youth of your tank @Clarityreef I would also suggest that you leave things as is and continue on the same path for a while but if you want to delve into more complex methods and nutrient controls then you want go wrong with either the zeovit system (potential more expensive) or biopellets and a phos remover (can go wrong very quickly). My personal experience is to recommend zeo out of the two as I thoroughly enjoy the system but it's a personal preference, what are you looking for exactly?
Let's all take a deep breath and cut the squabbling, that would be nice. Let's get back to helping out @Clarityreef in making a decision :)
We all know its easy to misread the tone of typed communication so I'm sure we can all shrug it off and keep discussing - don't want to see this thread go downhill then be left. I had been hoping you would elaborate more @rnscross on two of the comments you made - one was that corals don't contribute to? or produce? nitrate and the other is that there can be long term side effects from using the Zeo program. Btw I have been reading your posts for years now so am well aware who you are, so you never know who is watching and learning from you if that makes you feel any better in a totally creepy way! ;)
Re: Zeo - just curious to know what the long term effects are.
Re: corals and nitrates. I know from experience that you can set up a coral only tank with no input of prepared foods and have nitrates.. so where do they come from? I understand the basics of the nitrogen cycle and how keeping live rock alone can produce nitrates - so is it the rock the corals are growing on that are responsible for the nitrate being produced or the corals metabolic processes as well? I tried to test this out for myself as I mentioned earlier and all I know for sure is that a piece of old live rock with a very large soft coral on it in 100L of water that has no filtration to speak of - there are nitrates. I also observed the coral shed and its skin became detritus in the tank - so I assumed that could contribute to the nitrate level?
Back from my stint away.looks like this thread has gained some momentum.
Ive come back and nitrates are sitting at 30ppm. Slightly higher...
Re wrangy,My aim is to have a nano reef system that is easily manageable but also have a system that has good long term effects. The poll hasnt moved but its seems biopellet and gfo system is a nay for some and zeovit is a yay for some. Leaving the tank as is is a yay for some.
I guess it could all depend on what system we are running. Sps or lps or mixed or....
Re, Agent M
Im with you on that corals do produce some nitrates. corals do shed like the sinularia and toadstool which i have observed, this would contribute to nitrates right? Even when moving my corals to a new tank i put them in an empty tub with just corals and Hob to aerate with no live rock the nitrates would creep up slowly. but in a way observing my corals since the dawn of this tank even with the high nitrates the corals dont even mind. But it also interest me in knowing if the corals will do even better when nitrates are constantly 0ppm.
I am currently leaning towards the marine pure but only thing holding back is the nitrate storage longterm.
Re zeovit users . I would like to know how this works? Are these drops addeds periodically? ...
Re zeostone users. How do these work?
I do belive setting up a marine tank is a learning curve. but its intersting to see what new ways there are in reef keeping an Sub artificial environment. Im just at the bottom of the chain and slowly working my way uP.
Ive come back and nitrates are sitting at 30ppm. Slightly higher...
Re wrangy,My aim is to have a nano reef system that is easily manageable but also have a system that has good long term effects. The poll hasnt moved but its seems biopellet and gfo system is a nay for some and zeovit is a yay for some. Leaving the tank as is is a yay for some.
I guess it could all depend on what system we are running. Sps or lps or mixed or....
Re, Agent M
Im with you on that corals do produce some nitrates. corals do shed like the sinularia and toadstool which i have observed, this would contribute to nitrates right? Even when moving my corals to a new tank i put them in an empty tub with just corals and Hob to aerate with no live rock the nitrates would creep up slowly. but in a way observing my corals since the dawn of this tank even with the high nitrates the corals dont even mind. But it also interest me in knowing if the corals will do even better when nitrates are constantly 0ppm.
I am currently leaning towards the marine pure but only thing holding back is the nitrate storage longterm.
Re zeovit users . I would like to know how this works? Are these drops addeds periodically? ...
Re zeostone users. How do these work?
I do belive setting up a marine tank is a learning curve. but its intersting to see what new ways there are in reef keeping an Sub artificial environment. Im just at the bottom of the chain and slowly working my way uP.
If your only concern is nitrates and you want a simple cost effective way of lowering it. I would recommend some sort of carbon dosing this feeds the bacteria to re-populate and consume more waist…nitrate
There are a few options with carbon dosing...I have used redsea nopo and it works very well and is also a long term option. As far as i know all carbon dosing should be added daily.
zeovit is more complicated, may take longer to work but will give you the healthiest tank.
when your stones are newly added the bacteria is added daily for 10 days. Then twice a week till stones reach exhaustion at about 8 weeks. Then you change 90% of your stones and start again.
the carbon source zeostart3 is added twice a day always.
So the 3 basics are
zeobac, zeostart3 and stones.
Zeovit is really for a sps kind of reefer not necessary for lps or softies.
Plus 1 for Red Sea No3PO4 X
I would recommend a course of Red Sea nopo. Simple easy effective.
Worked on a tank that I used to maintain for a customer.
He even managed to keep corals after he learnt to dose Nopo
In saying that you could get a bottle of zeo bac and start 3 same as NoPo but better and never look back.
You could skip the marine pure step save your money and use seachem filter matrix if you looking to create a five star hotel for your bacteria.
I would recommend a course of Red Sea nopo. Simple easy effective.
Worked on a tank that I used to maintain for a customer.
He even managed to keep corals after he learnt to dose Nopo
In saying that you could get a bottle of zeo bac and start 3 same as NoPo but better and never look back.
You could skip the marine pure step save your money and use seachem filter matrix if you looking to create a five star hotel for your bacteria.
Last edited:
Members online
No members online now.