Reef Discussion

[Wrangy]

So am I crazy if I want to start looking into breeding? I've had this tingling sensation in my nether regions telling me that I ought to be doing something in order to have some fun with live foods and breeding some different species that aren't clowns or dottybacks. No idea on what I want to breed yet really, maybe something interesting like the liopropoma genus, the centropyge genus or something from the blenniidae family. It's a lot to blast myself with little to no experience but hell, how else do you get rocking into something that's such a demanding part of a demanding hobby haha.
@MagicJ @Chrismelb

I'm planning on practising live foods beforeany breeding with some rots, phyto and several species of copepods :) Gonna get me real busy haha

 

[MagicJ]

@Wrangy I actually found breeding more interesting and exciting then keeping a reef tank. But, be prepared to take small. incremental steps during the process and be prepared for multiple failures.

Rots and phyto will be easy for you once you get the hang of it. Copepods can be more difficult and also difficult to source the different species in Australia.

Please, do not underestimate how difficult this can be, especially when you are new to the game. It will also take up a considerable amount of time - for me it was before work and after work 7 days a week.

Do not discount some clowns as your first effort - you will learn a lot from the process and the excitement from seeing your first larvae go through met and start to take on the adult colouration (basically overnight) makes it worthwhile.

 

[slin1977]

My pep shrimp are always berried / that's as far as it goes on the salty side. I have a full blown guppy project in the spare room, freshwater is easy, lol.
There is a three stage brine shrimp hatchery waiting to get wet tucked away somewhere under the bed.

Kickstart yours and I'll get mine going....

 

[Wrangy]

@Wrangy I actually found breeding more interesting and exciting then keeping a reef tank. But, be prepared to take small. incremental steps during the process and be prepared for multiple failures.

It's something I've always had in the back of my mind, along with coral propagation but that's a bit wonky at the moment and I think I would get a little more enjoyment out of breeding and rearing too! Especially if they're from species I truly love! lol. Don't worry about that, I'm setting things up with the expectations of lots of failures and lots and lots of small steps but I think that learning curve is going to be one of the most enjoyable aspects! Especially while working with a single species too :)

@WrangyRots and phyto will be easy for you once you get the hang of it. Copepods can be more difficult and also difficult to source the different species in Australia.

That's what I've read, even more so with freeze-dried and paste phyto that's available these days as well. The copepods will be something of their own project as well as I do want to try and source several different species to play with. I do know of one commercial fishery in QLD that has two species they're growing but I'll be looking around for others too.

Please, do not underestimate how difficult this can be, especially when you are new to the game. It will also take up a considerable amount of time - for me it was before work and after work 7 days a week.
Do not discount some clowns as your first effort - you will learn a lot from the process and the excitement from seeing your first larvae go through met and start to take on the adult colouration (basically overnight) makes it worthwhile.

Oh I'm bunkering down alright, I haven't mentioned it to Georgia yet though :p hahaha she'll love it though! Given that I'm still at uni, with no full time work and most of my time is at home anyway, the time dedication is not something I fell I'm going to have issue with or struggle with as I'll be around a large amount of the time anyway!
I know, I know they're a good place to start and would be fascinating to watch but I have no love for clowns lol I really will need to start with something different in order to keep the fires stoked under my ass lol. If I start with something that may be more difficult and may mean I take a lot more time to get the hang of it will mean more and keep me more motivated! I just can't do clowns lol so any other suggestions would be amazing :) I'm trying to get into contact with the breeding rock stars in the US too, Todd, Kathy and Karren as their insights would be invaluable!!

My pep shrimp are always berried / that's as far as it goes on the salty side. I have a full blown guppy project in the spare room, freshwater is easy, lol.
There is a three stage brine shrimp hatchery waiting to get wet tucked away somewhere under the bed.
Kickstart yours and I'll get mine going....

Speaking of guppy projects, you haven't posted any new pics of them in a while! ;) lol

You're on :) I'm looking forward to learning a lot more about copepods lol[/user]

 

[MagicJ]

Join up with the MBI - then you can get a graphic to use in your signature like me :)

And, there is lots of useful information and breeding logs for you to read during your free time ...

 

[MagicJ]

And, you will also have access to members who are very knowledgeable about culturing various algae species and pods etc.

 

[Wrangy]

Already signed up with MBI, listening to all the Reef's Threads podcasts at the moment and reading all of Kathy's, Todd's and Karen's various writing as well lol I'm jumping in deep :P
I've also emailed Todd as he's a bit of a hero/rockstar to me with his work with liopropoma sp., lipogramma klayi, gramma dejongi and of course the illustrious r. opercularis :eek :rofl

I'm doing a little research on the smaller species that have been bred and successfully raised in captivity as I want to do something groovy as we don't have many home grown groovy breeders at the moment! I'm also going to try and get in touch with a few of the larger institutes and uni's :)

My plan is being formulated haha

 

[Chrismelb]

You may not always hear about the positive experiences with marine ornamental aquaculture for the reasons already discussed above by others, which are valid btw. But one thing that is often overlooked is the enjoyment derived from the success that can be had – this is worth millions!!! I would therefore highly encourage anyone to give it a try!! I have gotten a lot out of aquaculture and am amazed as to how much of an exciting journey this has been. Reading your posts, this sounds like a dream of yours and no one ever really regrets chasing a dream – so I say go for it!!

I too started when I was at UNI and this greatly helped as I had time up my sleeve. I also lived with mum and dad so I had little expenses, which helped.

If you don’t like clowns stay away from them and focus on what your passionate about (you will be amazed at what you can achieve if your passionate about something). It’s a very exciting time to be in aquaculture at the moment. There have been lots of great advances and I think we have really turned a corner and should start to see a lot more species cultured very shortly.

 

[slin1977]

I spent a full 6 week holiday with my mind occupied with the research into breeding red line cleaners, I know you want to do fish not inverts. Oh you will have fun ... my brineshrimp hatchery is one day destined to feeding the guppys. Speaking of which the genetic throwback I got from crossing my platinum magenta strain with a see thru glass belly produced a very unexpected result.

You see three different mutations were combined with each other each removing a layer of colour cells to produce the see thru glass belly.
Similar mutations are contained in my platinum magenta strains amoungst others. I haven't seen the half black expression in my fish since the initial strike up of my experimentation about seven years ago. I have spent many hours staring at this F1 cross and the colour patterns amoungst half black they are expressing. Some outcrosses can yield some very unexpected results.

 

[Mattres]

Kool! Whatever u breed, I'll buy. lol
Especially anything from the liopropoma genus. That would
be amazing.

 

[Wrangy]

You may not always hear about the positive experiences with marine ornamental aquaculture for the reasons already discussed above by others, which are valid btw. But one thing that is often overlooked is the enjoyment derived from the success that can be had – this is worth millions!!! I would therefore highly encourage anyone to give it a try!! I have gotten a lot out of aquaculture and am amazed as to how much of an exciting journey this has been. Reading your posts, this sounds like a dream of yours and no one ever really regrets chasing a dream – so I say go for it!!

I too started when I was at UNI and this greatly helped as I had time up my sleeve. I also lived with mum and dad so I had little expenses, which helped.

If you don’t like clowns stay away from them and focus on what your passionate about (you will be amazed at what you can achieve if your passionate about something). It’s a very exciting time to be in aquaculture at the moment. There have been lots of great advances and I think we have really turned a corner and should start to see a lot more species cultured very shortly.

I hear the very mixed feelings and experiences with breeding but that's also because I think people don't realise quite what's involved beyond ooh my clowns are spawning I can totally do this lol but that's also how it starts for some too :) Not trying to put anyone down by saying that haha. I think the feelings of excitement and elation from having a success in any of the stages, even making it an extra day post hatch would be amazing! I live and breathe this hobby like a lot of us and have always loved the idea of breeding but never thought I'd be capable of it, but having read some of Todd's work and listening to people talk about it has me beleiveing in myself haha

Unfortunately I don't live at home anymore so I can't say I have no expenses but I'm definitely rich in spare time :p it's going to be small beginnings, as simple as getting my first pair to spawning condition in my tank or sump to prove I can hit stage one lol. I'm thinking a blenny species to start with as people have had success with them, they're readily available and small so I don't have to do anything special just yet :)

I agree with you though, there's been some amazing advances of late! Especially with pelagic spawners! I'm defintiely going into this head on to start with because how else do you do it lol.

I spent a full 6 week holiday with my mind occupied with the research into breeding red line cleaners, I know you want to do fish not inverts. Oh you will have fun ... my brineshrimp hatchery is one day destined to feeding the guppys. Speaking of which the genetic throwback I got from crossing my platinum magenta strain with a see thru glass belly produced a very unexpected result.

You see three different mutations were combined with each other each removing a layer of colour cells to produce the see thru glass belly.
Similar mutations are contained in my platinum magenta strains amoungst others. I haven't seen the half black expression in my fish since the initial strike up of my experimentation about seven years ago. I have spent many hours staring at this F1 cross and the colour patterns amoungst half black they are expressing. Some outcrosses can yield some very unexpected results.

BREED CLEANERS!!!! :D lol and suffer and awful fate, they seem like the most pain in the ass invert lol.I admire anyone that works with any cleaner shrimp!

We need pictures man! Where are the picture!? haha sounds pretty awesome to me, the whole genetics of your guppy's is fascinating!

Kool! Whatever u breed, I'll buy. lol
Especially anything from the liopropoma genus. That would
be amazing.

haha it might be quite some time before I reach the point of selling anything :p
Liopropoma is going to take even longer as it could take years before I can even source a second individual and they're not easy to rear either lol could be a 30 day settlement or a 120 day settlement which would be a BITCH!! haha I am waiting to breed them though! I cannot wait :D

 

[Mattres]

I hear the very mixed feelings and experiences with breeding but that's also because I think people don't realise quite what's involved beyond ooh my clowns are spawning I can totally do this lol but that's also how it starts for some too :) Not trying to put anyone down by saying that haha. I think the feelings of excitement and elation from having a success in any of the stages, even making it an extra day post hatch would be amazing! I live and breathe this hobby like a lot of us and have always loved the idea of breeding but never thought I'd be capable of it, but having read some of Todd's work and listening to people talk about it has me beleiveing in myself haha

Unfortunately I don't live at home anymore so I can't say I have no expenses but I'm definitely rich in spare time :p it's going to be small beginnings, as simple as getting my first pair to spawning condition in my tank or sump to prove I can hit stage one lol. I'm thinking a blenny species to start with as people have had success with them, they're readily available and small so I don't have to do anything special just yet :)

I agree with you though, there's been some amazing advances of late! Especially with pelagic spawners! I'm defintiely going into this head on to start with because how else do you do it lol.


BREED CLEANERS!!!! :D lol and suffer and awful fate, they seem like the most pain in the ass invert lol.I admire anyone that works with any cleaner shrimp!

We need pictures man! Where are the picture!? haha sounds pretty awesome to me, the whole genetics of your guppy's is fascinating!



haha it might be quite some time before I reach the point of selling anything :p
Liopropoma is going to take even longer as it could take years before I can even source a second individual and they're not easy to rear either lol could be a 30 day settlement or a 120 day settlement which would be a BITCH!! haha I am waiting to breed them though! I cannot wait :D

What ever you try and reckon you'll have fun, your to diehard not to! :D

 

[Savage Henry]

I'd suggest yellow assessors for the following reasons:

1. Not too difficult to get breeding.
2. Easy to keep/easy to feed.
3. Can keep a number together in a three foot tank.
4. Can be kept in a dedicated breeding tank with just live rock and you could bore suitable holes into the live rock for them to breed in.
5. Should be able to collect the eggs as they form a bundle of them.
6. There have been reports written about raising them.
7. They sell at a reasonable price so you will be able to easily sell any you raise.
8. You can buy young ones and let them grow up together.

The ones I once had bred often, but I never seriously tried to raise the young as I was too busy.

 

[Wrangy]

What ever you try and reckon you'll have fun, your to diehard not to! :D

Are you trying to say I'm a bit of a madman in love with my hobby? :p The nice thing about this is I've got my plan laid out completely (posting below) and have short term and long term goals :)

I'd suggest yellow assessors
The ones I once had bred often, but I never seriously tried to raise the young as I was too busy.

I like your thinking :) I hadn't actually considered them but I do love them as had actually planned on having some in the sump lol

So my plans as I'm thinking about them have a line of thinking with the end goal of successful larvae rearing :) It's going to begin with live food culturing moving up the chain of difficulty and at the same time find myself a pair of something to get to spawning condition :) And finally end up with a rearing tank or two :)

• Firstly I'm going to start with the culturing of phyto, as that's the staple for the rest of the systems to come and it's the easiest to master in the early stages. The species I'll be focusing on is nannochloropsis oculata and I may also see if I can source another species to run in tandem to add variety and nutritional content to gut loading other foods and feeding my tank as I'll be dosing the Shallows directly with phyto. I'm going to run all this in the cupboard of the study in some shelving racks and in simple plastic bottles. I plan on running three cultures so that I have backups and can produce a decent amount on a regular basis.
• Once I reach a capacity point with culturing phyto and have been through a few cycles of cut and refill and have them successfully sustaining, growing and not crashing, I'll move onto the lovely rotifers and culturing those little guys as they're the next step in the progression of live foods. Once again I plan of having several several cultures revolving at once in case of crash and also so I can test my abilities on them. I'm pretty sure at this point the tank is going to be in love with me and all the live food being pumped in!
• Next we move onto the trickiest part, the much loved copepod! I'm going to try and get at least two species running here, as they have different applications and responses from different species of fish at the various stages of development. I want ot try and aim for a mix of parvocalanus, harpacticoid or anything else we can get here in Aus. I'll be breeding them in a divided tank setup for ease of maintenance and once again I want to run two cultures of each strain to help ensure I always have some around. These guys will also be feed with phyto but I will try and see if I can get them thriving on freeze-dried/paste phyto as that's easier to maintain!

Well that's my food plan at least :) I'll be updating with more once I narrow down the species I'll be attempting :) I would like to try with blennies but who knows lol it'll depend on what I have access too!

 

[S1L3NT]

Tagging along on this mostly for the live foods for now :) I've got a breeding rack sitting empty currently which will be in use after I move house in the next 6 months or so. Where does everyone get their phyto, rotifiers and pods from? I know reefculture has some rots and phytos but no pods that i've seen.

Anyone culturing mysid shrimp also? Seems like it'd be a good thing to feed conditioning breeders too.

 

[Mattres]

Are you trying to say I'm a bit of a madman in love with my hobby? :p The nice thing about this is I've got my plan laid out completely (posting below) and have short term and long term goals :)


I like your thinking :) I hadn't actually considered them but I do love them as had actually planned on having some in the sump lol

So my plans as I'm thinking about them have a line of thinking with the end goal of successful larvae rearing :) It's going to begin with live food culturing moving up the chain of difficulty and at the same time find myself a pair of something to get to spawning condition :) And finally end up with a rearing tank or two :)

• Firstly I'm going to start with the culturing of phyto, as that's the staple for the rest of the systems to come and it's the easiest to master in the early stages. The species I'll be focusing on is nannochloropsis oculata and I may also see if I can source another species to run in tandem to add variety and nutritional content to gut loading other foods and feeding my tank as I'll be dosing the Shallows directly with phyto. I'm going to run all this in the cupboard of the study in some shelving racks and in simple plastic bottles. I plan on running three cultures so that I have backups and can produce a decent amount on a regular basis.
• Once I reach a capacity point with culturing phyto and have been through a few cycles of cut and refill and have them successfully sustaining, growing and not crashing, I'll move onto the lovely rotifers and culturing those little guys as they're the next step in the progression of live foods. Once again I plan of having several several cultures revolving at once in case of crash and also so I can test my abilities on them. I'm pretty sure at this point the tank is going to be in love with me and all the live food being pumped in!
• Next we move onto the trickiest part, the much loved copepod! I'm going to try and get at least two species running here, as they have different applications and responses from different species of fish at the various stages of development. I want ot try and aim for a mix of parvocalanus, harpacticoid or anything else we can get here in Aus. I'll be breeding them in a divided tank setup for ease of maintenance and once again I want to run two cultures of each strain to help ensure I always have some around. These guys will also be feed with phyto but I will try and see if I can get them thriving on freeze-dried/paste phyto as that's easier to maintain!

Well that's my food plan at least :) I'll be updating with more once I narrow down the species I'll be attempting :) I would like to try with blennies but who knows lol it'll depend on what I have access too!

Yes you're a madman!
A madman with no soul, a cupboard full of breeding organisms and a glass box of scleractinia's Haha :p

 

[MagicJ]

I found out last night that Quarantine Tasmania has now placed rotifers on a restricted list and you need a licence to bring them into Tasmania I would like to see the science behind that decision :confused:

Luckily, we have found someone in Tassie who still has a culture going ...

 

[Wrangy]

Tagging along on this mostly for the live foods for now :) I've got a breeding rack sitting empty currently which will be in use after I move house in the next 6 months or so. Where does everyone get their phyto, rotifiers and pods from? I know reefculture has some rots and phytos but no pods that i've seen.

Anyone culturing mysid shrimp also? Seems like it'd be a good thing to feed conditioning breeders too.

I'll be documenting them to the best of my ability, even though they've been done a thousand times before haha. That being said not a lot of reefers are currently doing it these days. I'll be sourcing my live food starters from various sources, locals, shops and aquaculture wholesalers. I really want to track down parvocalanus copepods though as they seem to be a staple for a lot of breeders in the US!

I thought about that but I would rather work with copepods than mysids :) I think @Oceanarium were doing mysids?

Yes you're a madman!
A madman with no soul, a cupboard full of breeding organisms and a glass box of scleractinia's Haha :p

Well shit, when you put it like that I sound like a psycho :P hahaha

I found out last night that Quarantine Tasmania has now placed rotifers on a restricted list and you need a licence to bring them into Tasmania I would like to see the science behind that decision :confused:

Luckily, we have found someone in Tassie who still has a culture going ...

Say what now!?! Why would they do that? Whitespot scare would be my guess lol. At least there's some in the state already and people have cultures going or we'll have to start an interstate live food smuggling ring :p

 

[MagicJ]

... or we'll have to start an interstate live food smuggling ring :p

Sounds like an idea - but maybe best if it's not talked about in a public forum :rolleyes

 

[Wrangy]

Sounds like an idea - but maybe best if it's not talked about in a public forum :rolleyes

Hahaha no pays this rag-tag bunch of reefers any attention :P