Reef Discussion

[potatocouch]

What's the logic/calculation in maintaining Ca/Mg/Alk?

So, I assume the logical approach would be:

• Start of week: Test water and see the params.
• Dose 'til I reach optimal level.
• Leave it and top up if water evaporates.
• 《《 Do water change here? 》》
• End of week: Test water and see params.
• 《《 or Do water change here? 》》

Wouldn't I want to see the params after WC, since params will change again (replenished) after WC? If I take params before WC, chance is I'll overdose wouldn't I?

And if to dose daily (SPS), then divide the results by 7 ?

And the elements uptake for the week would be: (End of week params minus Start of week params) ?

Is there any sequence of order where I need to do Mg dose then Alk dose and Ca dose last? 30 mins interval each?

 

[NiCd]

I generally manual test/dose ever three days first to learn your tanks requirements, when you begin auto dosing your tanks parameters should be where you want them to begin with and you should know your usage over three days, so you just divide.

When auto dosing Id recommend dosing as many times over a day as you can and I try to separate your alk and cal dosing by as much time as you can and into a very high flow area.

Id recommend the water you use for water changes be the same parameters you are shooting for so there theoretically should be no changes or if there is its further towards where you should be.

.I have never found too much sucess with trace test kits, if you are shooting for perfect water parameters maybe consider periodically getting a Triton test done, if you are just keeping regular corals and doing water changes I wouldn't bother with trace until the tank has been running along time and you can notice the physical changes they bring about compared to the swings of an early set up and you can tune it that way or realise you don't need them at all.

 

[Sam Parker]

It's pretty difficult to measure precisely over a week what your tank needs as there are too many variables. No harm in trying, but you will find that you will adjust this value a number of times over the weeks/months/years to come as you fine tune it.

 

[potatocouch]

Right ... thanks @NiCd @Sam Parker ... it's probably too early for me to auto dose as per what you're saying and I don't intend to at this stage.

I think I sort of understand ... the water change that we usually do matches the optimal level of those 3 elements ... so test need to be done pre water change to understand the Ca, Mg & Alk uptake throughout the week and top up to optimum level ... then do water change and it should maintain at the same optimum level.

 

[NiCd]

You could use your doser set to minimal usage levels and adjust up from there and manually top up the rest inbetween.

Auto dosing is never meant to be a set and forget thing, although as your tank gets a few years old alot of us treat it that way. Your tanks demands will change according to its livestock and growth and other things you dose.

If you dose carbon, your alk usage will change proportionally when you vary that, if you snails and breeding yours usage goes up, your clam is laying down growth plates, your acros are kicking it up a notch because your phosphates are low because you forgot to feed a few times that week etc.

So you will always need to be mindful and adjust to some degree. I remember getting complacent because my levels had been constants for over a year and then I sold off one of my prized clams without remembering that the think drank alk/cal and my levels shot through the roof. It wasnt until about a month later when I was wondering why everything looked like poo and I had some LPS polyp eject that I realised what i had done (or not done)

 

[potatocouch]

that is very good @NiCd ! very informative and easy to digest. this is not the end of it .. as I travel, I'll shoot some more questions via this forum.

 

[potatocouch]

1 more thing before I go spending $$$ on test kit ... I intend to purchase Red Sea Foundation Pro test kits to measure Ca, Mg & Alk level.

Are these test kits good and accurate enough? I intend to step away from API. If not, can anyone suggest what is good to measure these 3 elements?

Budget is probably as much as Red Sea Foundation Pro price .. so approx. I have 95 in my wallet.

 

[Sam Parker]

Salifert are a good industry standard. Hanna are available for Alk and Cal, they are good but cost a little more. Salifert are more than adequate though :)

 

[potatocouch]

Salifert are a good industry standard. Hanna are available for Alk and Cal, they are good but cost a little more. Salifert are more than adequate though :)

I haven't research Salifert, so don't know how $$$ are they ...

but @Sam Parker , if you are given the option to choose between Salifert and Red Sea, which one would you choose? are we saying that in terms of test accuracy, Salifert is better than Red Sea? or are they just easier to test and read?

 

[NiCd]

Salifert are generally cheaper. I think the Trio normally sets you back about $60.

Red sea seem to spend a lot of time on marketing/telling everyone how great they are and sleek packaging rather than actually being all that great.

LFS tend to push them strongly because there is a pretty big mark up on their stuff as well.

IMO Salifert wins over Red Seas alk, calc and mg kits in its costs, ease of use, accuracy and price. If you are after nice packaging red sea wins that.

The nitrate test kit in the RS is better than sailferts, you just have to remember to shake the crap out of bottles before you use them as one has a suspended metallic compound that sets like a rock to the bottom and throws your results out.

Coral shops stuff is next level in both accuracy and ease of use but unfortunately is also reflected in cost.

The only other kits id recommend getting is a nitrate and phosphate test kit.

Unless you are running zeolite your potassium will in 99% of cases be good

In regards to trace you are generally better off putting your time, money and effort into doing water changes than buying trace kits and mucking around with increasing your iron levels to near toxic conditions to supposedly make your greens their greenest like red sea suggests (which coincidently puts your levels into the range where their test kits can actually respond)

 

[potatocouch]

These are my results via LPS (23 Jan 2016 and 24 Jan 2016):

IMO Salifert wins over Red Seas alk, calc and mg kits in its costs, ease of use, accuracy and price. If you are after nice packaging red sea wins that.

Does Salifert test kits give me a number or just color range like API and we have to guess what is it?

In regards to trace you are generally better off putting your time, money and effort into doing water changes than buying trace kits and mucking around with increasing your iron levels to near toxic conditions to supposedly make your greens their greenest like red sea suggests (which coincidentally puts your levels into the range where their test kits can actually respond)

Water change doesn't seem to adequately put the level onto the optimum level (as per the measurement on 23 Jan 2016) but I'll take your input on board.

 

[NiCd]

Water changes wont keep on top of alk or calc, trace it seems to do a semi reasonable job - a few 50% water changes each year go a surprisingly long way in additional to your 10%'s

Depending on the kit but the main three change colour at a given point, you look at how much you have left in a syringe and look at a chart which gives you the results.

You have to learn the test kit a bit though as most of the time there is a flash where it changes and then goes back, in salifert you keep going past the flash, in red sea the flash is the end point and if you blink you can miss it.

You also reuse the vials in the red sea for other test so need to wash them out with citric acid then RO before hand otherwise it throws the tests way out. Where as salifert seems fine with just rinsing with RO before and after.

There is also a lip on the glass vials on the red sea which makes them really hard to dry and the lids seem to get impregnated with the colour of the solutions, which id hazard to guess is not great for results either

 

[Sam Parker]

I have nothing to add - quality advice there.

Personally I use salifert for calcium, alk and mag
Red sea for nitrate
Hanna for Phos (although I have alk and cal as well, just dont use them)

Nyos is another option, basically the same as Salifert in quality and price.

 

[dimitri]

Go get the NYOS test kits, they are very accurate & 10000% easier to use.

I feel like I have a degree in stupid every time I try and use a Salifert Kit !

 

[Buddy]

I have nothing to add - quality advice there.

Personally I use salifert for calcium, alk and mag
Red sea for nitrate
Hanna for Phos (although I have alk and cal as well, just dont use them)

Nyos is another option, basically the same as Salifert in quality and price.

Exactly the same here! All my Salifert kits are coming close to their expiry, ill have to check out the NYOS.

Go get the NYOS test kits, they are very accurate & 10000% easier to use.

I feel like I have a degree in stupid every time I try and use a Salifert Kit !

What makes them easier compared to Salifert? What is the expiry like on the NYOS kits?

 

[dimitri]

The method is easier. (less steps, less confusing)

The colour is easier to distinguish.

And the colour charts when they pertain are much more pronounced and easier to distinguish.

 

[Buddy]

The method is easier. (less steps, less confusing)

The colour is easier to distinguish.

And the colour charts when they pertain are much more pronounced and easier to distinguish.

Going slightly off topic....
Alright, so I just watched a NYOS video for alk, calc and mag.
The calc and mag looked exactly the same as Salifert. All of the steps were exactly the same. I think that there was a slightly more pronounced colour change than Salifert but not a big improvement IMO.
The problem I have with their alk test is that you can only test in 1dkh increments from what I saw in the video. Is that correct?

 

[Sam Parker]

Going slightly off topic....
Alright, so I just watched a NYOS video for alk, calc and mag.
The calc and mag looked exactly the same as Salifert. All of the steps were exactly the same. I think that there was a slightly more pronounced colour change than Salifert but not a big improvement IMO.
The problem I have with their alk test is that you can only test in 1dkh increments from what I saw in the video. Is that correct?

Yeah I thought they were exactly the same, except for alk which just uses drops instead of a syringe giving less accuracy but easier to test.

 

[dimitri]

yeah overall of all the tests combined it ended up being easier and quicker and better to tell the numbers.

I test everything though so like if its 5 steps or 10 steps total less which means a few minutes saved and the correct reading and not having to re-do a bunch of tests because I stuffed something up well then that = better

but after looking at those 2 specifically its 6 steps on the NYOS.

 

[potatocouch]

When testing Ca with Salifert, do I want high or low res? Which one would be more accurate?