Reef Discussion

macca_75

Member
Apr 22, 2012
2,125
844
Thanks guys.

The (black) wires will need to be unsoldered anyway as we are only "testing" to see if a line of 3 will work with my aquascape. If it does then the next test (at the same time) is to see how far apart they need to be. Once I know that then I will cut to the proper length, etc.

So in short, Yes the will be tided but no they won't be hidden:

1) who sees the underside anyway
2) if I drill through the heatsink I loose flexability to move/ tweak the position of the LED's if needed, easily add extra's, change out colors or upgrade to newer ones, etc. if also just moves the mess to the top where it can be seen in normal operation.

If I put a cover on I'll loose a bit of light as I am hoping to not use lenses if I can avoid it (better blending without them)

Can't wait to get all 7 channels up and running.
 

Gordon

Member
Jan 29, 2013
141
37
Casula
Hi macca_75

First thanks for commenting on my own build on MASA. I've spend a ridiculous amount of time reading and am pretty well ready to order my stuff. My biggest question for all is I'm planning to buy the eln 60-48 dimmable drivers from meanwell. Will be using the arduino to control them. Reading this thread I'm really unsure about that decision. If anyone would like to know more details of my planned build before commenting, if you tell me how to do it I'll insert a link to my thread which has the layout and all the equipment I plan to build.

Thanks again macca_75
 

macca_75

Member
Apr 22, 2012
2,125
844
Hi macca_75

First thanks for commenting on my own build on MASA. I've spend a ridiculous amount of time reading and am pretty well ready to order my stuff. My biggest question for all is I'm planning to buy the eln 60-48 dimmable drivers from meanwell. Will be using the arduino to control them. Reading this thread I'm really unsure about that decision. If anyone would like to know more details of my planned build before commenting, if you tell me how to do it I'll insert a link to my thread which has the layout and all the equipment I plan to build.

Thanks again macca_75
Welcome to TheReefuge @Gordon. :welcome

A couple of quick tips (well the one I find most useful). You can tag people here by putting an "@" symbol before their name - if you do this they will be alerted that you have shouted out to them, so to speak.

I am by no means a guru here and am just getting the hang if this myself.

But.... if we call out to @MagicJ I'm sure he can answer some questions for you (and I hope he doesn't mind my dobbing him in). He may also have handy links to a few articles he is writing here about DIY LED's which might answer some of your questions.

Have you got any questions/concerns in particular you would like answered or anything we can help you with?

If you just copy/paste the link in the editor is smart enough to figure it out, but I'm not sure if you need a minimum post count to do this.
 

MagicJ

Moderator
Jul 11, 2011
9,650
3,761
Hobart, Tasmania
@Gordon - maybe you could start a new thread and copy the details over??

With just a quick look at your planned build, it looks like you may be short on blues and/or you have too many neutral whites and I would seriously consider adding some cyan/turquoise.

What current are you planning on driving the XM-L's and XT-E's at ??

I would also consider the LDD drivers (see seperate thread in DIY section) as a cost effective driver solution - this depends on the answer to the question above ;)

Also keep in mind that the Arduino will not directly interface with the ELN series drivers (which require a 10V PWM control signal) whereas the LDD drivers will as they only require a 5V PWM control signal.
 

Gordon

Member
Jan 29, 2013
141
37
Casula
Thanks @macca_75 and & @MagicJ. Sorry for taking so long to respond. On holidays ATM and this is the first chance I've had to look.

Questions are pretty broad at this stage as I'm only up to ordering now but @majicj as already given me a great start. Main reason I hadn't ordered yet is because I've been worried about the drivers! I'll definitely look into the Ldd's. Im not 100% on what current I'm going to run them at yet but would like the ability to run as close to full power as possible. It would be a while before my coral would be able to handle that though I'd say.

I'll definitely look at those changes in my colours as well. Had been resisting the reds but that may be just the compromise I've been looking for.
 

macca_75

Member
Apr 22, 2012
2,125
844
I finally got my act together last night and finished my first run. Mixed results.

Let’s start with what I tested.

Here's a picture of the placement and layout. For scale, the length of the 3 heat sinks combined is 18".

IMG_0709.JPG


Basically 3 clusters of 14 LED's each

3 x Cool White (700mA)
3 x Royal Blue (700mA)
3 x Blue (700mA)
2 x Violet (350mA)
1 x Cyan (500mA)
1 x Turquoise (500mA)
1 x Neutral White (700mA)​

Here is a Picture (as best as I could capture it with my limited Camera Skills, basically comparing what was on the View finder to the actual tank, adjusted only by Shutter speed).

IMG_6128.JPG


IMG_6132.JPG


As I try to be a glass 1/2 full type of guy let’s start with the Bad and end on a Positive note:

The Bad:

The light out of this was nowhere near the intensity I am used to. Currently I have 2 x 250W MH (14K AMD bulbs). At first glance (it was in a dark room with no other source of light other than the other halide running) and my thoughts/comment to @Rob was this would be a nice effect as it dimmed down on a dusk setting in the evening. Nowhere near as intense or good for viewing as I will be happy with.

I also found this colour way to blue for my "viewing", but it did make my "crisp white halide" look yellow which surprised me. After a short while I did like the colour of the LED better than the Halide, but somewhere in the middle would be even better.

Sooo moving one to....

The Good:

  1. I was happy with the fact we can run 1 line "down the centre of the tank" and got heaps of coverage.
  2. I did notice a small disco effect, but it was only when I was looking for it up close. As a general viewing (back from the couch) it blended nice.
  3. Although not as bright as I am used to, maybe I just need to change my way of thinking. Brighter might not always be better.
  4. To the point above I tested the lights again for a few hours in the afternoon. They actually looked really good. I thought they would be more dull during the day, but this wasn't the case. Maybe the natural ambient light complimented the LED's instead of competing with it.
  5. I have currently only used 3 out of the 4 heatsinks (and associated LED's) we calculated I would need for a tank this size. This might be why it was a little dull.
  6. On the point above, I can still (and will) add another 25% of light.
So where to from here....

  1. Join the 3 heat sinks into 1 (there are slots in the top to allow this). Future sinks will be bought as the 18" model - 1 solid piece.
  2. Unsolder and remove all LED's. Clean the paste of the LED's and heat sinks and start again. I liked the layout, but intend to put all 4 clusters I have bought across the length of the heat sink. (The beauty of this heat sink - I haven’t got any holes in the wrong spot and don't need to drill and tap any - something that would of almost make me "live with it").
    Sorry @Rob, but better to do it right rather than try and just slide the LED's across and make a huge mess. I'll need to get some more wire, although as I am keeping the same clusters I can keep the white bits and re-use them. The black bits (that look really messy) are no longer required and can be replaced by short white ones.
  3. I'll need to replace 1 x Blue LED as it had a manufacturing fault. The LED wasn't attached to the negative terminal - hopefully LEDGROUPBUY will cover the shipping of the wire I buy with the replacement LED.
  4. Get some lenses. I was hoping to avoid them and get better blending but I suspect a lot of my "dullness" will be helped with some 60 or 80 degree lenses. Looking at something like this so I can keep the stars nice and close.
areefledlights.com_wp_content_uploads_2012_11_OPTICS_LEDLink_60.jpg


http://reefledlights.com/shop/ledlink-xt-e-xp-g-optics/

I also noticed after a few hours the heat sink was very warm - best way to describe it is like holding a cup of coffee in a ceramic mug that has just been made. So I'll need to get the fans mounted and on before I give them a full 8-10 hour run. Hopefully by then @MagicJ will have his controller ready - dialing the blue's and Royal Blues back a bit might help give me a crisper white before I start backing off to a blue for the evening.

If not, which LED do I need to increase, in either power or #'s - is it the Cool Whites?

Anyway, off for a quick update to my TJ and then a bit more Tank maintenance.

Thanks for reading.
 

Buddy

Member
Mar 13, 2012
3,142
1,526
Is that with everything on 100%? I agree with the too blue look. Maybe 2 NW to 3 RB would be better?
 

MagicJ

Moderator
Jul 11, 2011
9,650
3,761
Hobart, Tasmania
Adam, good to see it working :)

A few comments/observations :
  • I have no doubt that the led's will look dimmer when compared side by side to a MH. The MH emits a wide spectrum light, a large part of which is not actually required by your corals - but your eyes can see a lot of this spectrum. On the other hand, you have selected led's based on the requirements of your corals and have not included most of the unused spectrum. I suspect that, given time, your eyes will get used to the new light and you will forget what the MH looked like. Also, blue light emits less lumens than white light so if the balance is not quite what you want i.e. too blue, then this could also explain the dim look.
  • You are able to experiment - the benefit of DIY. Try replacing the LDD-700 with a LDD-1000 for the whites - hopefully this will be too white for your liking and the whites can then be tuned down via a controller.
  • I have a few blue led's here - let me know if you want one rather than go to the hassle, and delay, of getting one from the US.
  • Heatsinks are meant to get warm - that is how they operate by drawing the heat away from the diode and into the fins of the heatsink. The fact that they are warm shows that they are working the way they should. If it too hot to touch then you have a problem.
  • I would hold off on the lens until you have a chance to play around a bit more with the driver
  • @slin1977 found he had a significant improvement in his corals when he reduced the light levels - maybe he could comment.
Cheers
 

chimaera

enjoy the little things
May 13, 2012
5,473
2,295
Sandringham
Have to admit, I knew after seeing your tank that you would have a hard time adjusting to a full spectrum LED setup. For me, coming from that, your tank was very white/yellow/washed out ... so as Magic says I think you will get used to it and in time prefer that look. That said, you might want to look at the driver switch Magic mentions, or add another couple of whites to your clusters to at least give you the option of dialling it up. I'd personally get neutral white.

Some lenses will help with brightness for sure.
 

Rob

Member
Apr 26, 2012
743
424
If we are rebuilding do you think it's worth consolidating some of the channels down and group some of the similar LEDs. Ie one channel for whites and one for blues. :)

Kinda sounds like you we're getting used to the light. Glad it was no worse in the daylight. Although it was not as intense as needed I do like the look of LEDs as it accentuates the tank and there's zero light splash outside the tank with your in wall tank. Was it as blue during he day ? What does your better half think .?
 

macca_75

Member
Apr 22, 2012
2,125
844
OK guys,

So I finally have this puppy running.

I took it around to Rob's house 1 evening whilst checking out his new DIY effort (God his makes mine look positivley untidy - really thinking the whole individual LED's vs 3 UPS/OCW's. Anyway thats another discussion.

We put my unit above his tank and I'd have to say to the naked eye they seemed about the same in terms of Color and brightness. I was really surprised and happy with what I was getting out of my unit. Once I have control over the channels and can "tweak" it a little we are all good :)

Rushed home and put it on my tank - the bloddy thing looks blue again. WTF!

What could possibly make such a difference in appearance? My tank is a little deeper (talking maybe 4" here). The unit maybe sat another 4" higher over my tank. But thats it's. And it wasn't a little bit bluer - it's chalk and cheese.

Any idea's guys as to why it seems to throw such a different color light?

My tank is an "in wall" tank and Rob's has an open top in his general living area. I also have no background (currently) and Rob has a black on. Other than these differences I have no friggen idea why the massive difference in appearance......

Any idea's?
 

MagicJ

Moderator
Jul 11, 2011
9,650
3,761
Hobart, Tasmania
Did you have the MH's turned on when looking at your LED's?

Ambient light an issue??

The colour spectrum output by the LED's would not have changed so it must be an environmental factor of some sort :confused:
 

macca_75

Member
Apr 22, 2012
2,125
844
Did you have the MH's turned on when looking at your LED's?

Ambient light an issue??

The colour spectrum output by the LED's would not have changed so it must be an environmental factor of some sort :confused:
Gotta be honest here and say *stuffed if I know**

I have tried with both the other MH on and off (and given it a good few hours of testing).

I am thinking abient light in Rob's house, but I can't see how general household lighting can make such a difference. I wondering if something in the tank makes it look this different, but man it's bluer. Much bluer.
 

macca_75

Member
Apr 22, 2012
2,125
844
Thats
could the black backgound on robs be making it seem less blue as it is dark?

Probably the easiest thing to test anyway
Thats one thing Rob and I have discussed - easy to test I guess if I get a spare 1/2 hour to spray some sheet wood and hold it up on the back of the tank.