Off-Topic

[MichelleShocked]

Ok so here's the thing:
I have Capt. Paul Watson on my FB list and regularly get updates/posts from him. The other week he posted about a movie called "BlackFish" - about Killer Whales (Orcas) kept in captivity - in particular about a male Orca called Tilikum. I read the review with interest but got completely stuck on the part that read "masturbated by humans for his seman". My mind, the workings of which some of you are familiar with by now, went into horrified over-drive. Being me, I had to learn more. I spent the last day or so acquainting myself with the procedure. It's quite indepth & time consuming. It's also highly intrusive and degrading.
I'm still disturbed.
My question is:
What is the difference between "milking" a male animal & bestiality (which is usually illegal & generally distasteful to most people)?
Where is the line? The intelligence level of the animal involved? Intent? Wearing a white coat instead of a leer and a 3-day growth?
Thoughts?

 

[Wrangy]

I do enjoy some of the thoughts you post Michelle :)
In terms of the milking vs bestiality. This is milking and unfortunately the intelligent or any aspect of the animal is considered in terms of whether it be bestiality or for science. For it to be bestiality though, it means that the people doing it are getting some level of sexual enjoyment or arousal out of it and from the sounds and looks of things it's not about someone using it for their own gain. While it is probably very confronting for the animals having it done to them, if done properly (for some animals) they don't even know that it's happening for a scientific reason and I think as long as the reasons behind doing it are for the animals themselves and preservation of any species (including us) on the planet, I don't have much issue with it as long as it is done by those who are trained and have a genuine care for the animal it's happening to :)
That's my 2c anyway

 

[MichelleShocked]

:) i am just curious about ppl's take on the situation & open to pursuasion.
In the case of the Orcas & dolphins in Seaworld, the animals aren't bred to preserve the species (their wild populations are not endangered) - it is illegal for Seaworld to capture wild specimens for their display aquariums now so they are breeding captive specimens. According to the material I'v read, the females are impregnated at significantly younger ages than they would breed in the wild, resulting in stillborn/miscarried calves.
I guess my next question is: is it necessary?
And if whales/dolphins are self-aware beings, should we be doing this to them? In the description I read of training Tilikum to become erect and present his penis for stimulation sounds like the "grooming" that paedophiles carry out on children. I suppose, in my mind, animals hold the same status as children - not necessarily aware of our true intentions and motivations & so must be protected from unscrupulous peoples actions for their own good & future well-being.
I had thought "intent" comes into it as well - but who really knows what a person is thinking while doing something so intimate with an animal? And why film it & put it on YouTube? To me, that's akin to filming children unknowingly carrying out explicit acts and posting it so others can gawk, laugh or get off. None of those reasons are acceptable to me because the animal is left with no dignity, even if it is unaware of what has been done. I dont know. This is quite distressing to me on several levels. Keep thoughts coming :)

 

[OSCAR85]

I watched a film called black fish. Very disturbing regarding this issue. Try to download it

 

[Oceanarium]

There are lots of things we (people) do that are unethical a lot touches all of us in everyday life. Who likes to eat an egg?

What about all the male chickens that were euthanased at 1 week old..... They could have been grown out on a meat farm but they were not bred for that..... then the lucky girls get to live for an extra 14 months and are artificially made to lay several eggs per day, they could have a useful laying life of ten years but are burnt out at 14 months and the carcasses 'processed' as the industry calls it.

What is processed ? chicken nuggets? soup? No just gassed to death and buried in a hole

How many people support this egg industry by buying their products ? +99.9% of us.

Pete

 

[aussieant32]

was going to say a similar thing Pete, unfortunately with alot of people they pick and choose animal rights. I have a friend that will not eat pork due to the sow stalls, however, is happy to eat battery chickens? Where is the logic.

I really do not think that a trained person milking an animal is akin to a pedophile putting films of kids online. How many of the veterinarians do you really think put this documentary together? Considering Sea World did all they could to have this documentary banned, I assume none of them.

End of the day there are a large number of species that would not be here today without artificial insemination, due to the destruction of their habitats there is one choice, milk the animal and keep the animals alive, all be it mostly in captivity. Or simply let them die out. I know what one I prefer. The majority of people performing these procedures are highly trained professionals and to insinuate anything about them having sexual thoughts while doing it is not only insulting to them, but a great shame that this is the place the human mind goes to.

Whilst I agree that Sea World may not be using the semen in a completely responsible way, I do not think that the process is in any way sordid, if anything it is necessary. As with any profession, there are some bad eggs who do their job for the wrong reasons.

@OSCAR85 black fish is the documentary we are speaking about