Reef Discussion

Buddy

Member
Mar 13, 2012
3,142
1,526
Hair Algae With Low Nutrients?
Hey guys, I'm getting some hair algae and I am not sure why.
My phosphate, hanna (0.03) and nitrates, red sea pro (0.25) have been at these levels for months now.
Today's test had them reading even lower with phos at 0.015 and nitrate 0.
For the past few weeks some thick hair algae has come out of nowhere.
Any reason why this could be happening? My light schedule has not changed.
I have 6L of seachem matrix in the sump and I am dosing 5ml of NO3PO4X per day in my 1000L system.

IMG_20170122_152056.jpg
 

Mattres

Member
May 26, 2015
388
226
Adelaide
It's possible your nitrates are to low with the level of your phospate.
And with the algae in your tank possibly the actual content of phospate is higher than 0.015
From what I've read of the redfield ratio and all that people have experienced cyno and hair algae with an inbalance of phospate-nitrate.
Could be it?
 

Buddy

Member
Mar 13, 2012
3,142
1,526
Thanks @Mattres I will have to find a redfield calculator to see if the ratio is out. I have never bothered with it because I thought it only applied to fresh water.
 

Wazza22

Member
Oct 3, 2015
116
50
Perth
Yikes, that must be driving you nut's
I also have low nutrients, although my PO4 is a bit high right now coz i took the phosphate reactor offline as it was exhausted just before Xmas and haven't got the new phosban in it yet :rolleyes (currently 0.15 PO4 on hanna, used to be .04). NO3 is 0 on my Seachem kit.
Any CUC?
I have a Blue Tang from a previous system that was ... well ... lets just say a trial, that devours anything green (except corals ;)).
This is in addition to 30 odd trochus snails (these suckers breed like rabbits) and a lawnmower blennie.
My system is also 1000L just on 12 months old, how long has your system been established?
Could system age be a factor?
I don't have any useful information for you but am watching closely :reading
 

Buddy

Member
Mar 13, 2012
3,142
1,526
Yikes, that must be driving you nut's
I also have low nutrients, although my PO4 is a bit high right now coz i took the phosphate reactor offline as it was exhausted just before Xmas and haven't got the new phosban in it yet :rolleyes (currently 0.15 PO4 on hanna, used to be .04). NO3 is 0 on my Seachem kit.
Any CUC?
I have a Blue Tang from a previous system that was ... well ... lets just say a trial, that devours anything green (except corals ;)).
This is in addition to 30 odd trochus snails (these suckers breed like rabbits) and a lawnmower blennie.
My system is also 1000L just on 12 months old, how long has your system been established?
Could system age be a factor?
I don't have any useful information for you but am watching closely :reading
Hey @Wazza22 I have a bunch of snails including Trochus and Turbos and Strombs but none of them touch this algae. Same goes for my Blue Tang and the other 4 tangs! Come to think of it, my Blenny doesn't even touch it!
The system has been running since 2012 but I completely replaced the rock and sand just over a year ago and then I moved house towards the end of last year and ditched the sand.
My Nitrate and Phosphate have been low since I moved and the tank didn't have any algae at all until this break out.
I know my alk is a little low at 6.1 but not sure if it is a problem.
I have one of those Triton tests laying around here so I might actually send that off and see what it comes up with.
 

Lesley

Member
Apr 2, 2013
2,086
1,079
I would suggest that the gha is consuming the high nutrients from
The water colum well before it hits your water for testing

So basically your test results are inaccurate
And both phos & nitrates are far higher with that amount of gha
 

Buddy

Member
Mar 13, 2012
3,142
1,526
That could be the case @Lesley
Hopefully the triton test will measure that.
It is funny because I have had a lot higher nitrate and phos in the past and not a speck of algae :rolleyes
 
Sep 24, 2013
367
280
Palm Beach
My clue is that perhaps something is different in your PO4 input (such as an exhausted DI resin or a new food source rich in PO4) and the algar is consuming it so fast, that there is nothing in the water column for the test to detect.

The other option that comes to mind is that the PO4 test is expired.


RedField ratio would have no impact on this matter. It is just the average ratio of N,C,P in phytoplankton and some algae, which gives a good clue on how this elements will be consumed.

Basically, as long as there are N,C and P available, REGARDLESS of Redfield Ratio, algae will be able to feed and grow.
 

Trash

Member
Jan 21, 2013
78
26
I think Lesley has hit the nail on the head. The algae is utilising the nutrients so quickly that they don't show on the test kit. It could be due to many things but temperature may be a factor at this time of year. A slight increase can shift the equilibrium.

I've heard Foxfaces will eat the algae but haven't had any personal experience. Ease back on the amount of nutrients you put in the system (ie food) and you could even have the tank in the dark for a few days (it won't hurt the corals) in order to get it under control.

Cheers

Dave
 

Buddy

Member
Mar 13, 2012
3,142
1,526
Thanks @Trash
Am I right in thinking that I should have at least seen a small rise in my tests before the outbreak?
 

Wazza22

Member
Oct 3, 2015
116
50
Perth
Thanks @Trash
Am I right in thinking that I should have at least seen a small rise in my tests before the outbreak?
This is along the lines of what i was thinking. Still these ecosystems are tricky little suckers to master.
Have you thought about getting another pair of test kits to back up your current results
I'm not suggesting getting a second hanna though, just a pair of Salifert PO4 and NO3
It's not unheard of to get a bad result from a test kit, even though i think you have the best 2 available.
It's also not unheard of to get an algae outbreak with low nutrients :(
Such an interesting and at times frustrating hobby :):Do_0:confused::banghead:cry
 

Trash

Member
Jan 21, 2013
78
26
It's possible that there could have been a steady rise, there may have been an 'event' in the tank to kick it off. But it doesn't take long for low level plants and animals to take advantage of environmental conditions which suit their needs. There could have been a delay in the timing between the presence of these factors and when you tested. So many factors could be at play.

Maybe get your LFS to double check your parameters, this might save a bit of coin not having to buy more test kits. Do you have a sump with algae in it? Maybe increase the photoperiod of the light in the sump to get the algae in the sump to outcompete for the nutrients available.

I think the main thing is to increase water changes, make sure filter mediums are refreshed and improve the water quality and the equilibrium will slowly go back to what it was.
 

MQ-9

Member
Nov 25, 2014
281
108
When you initially replaced the new rock, were you running GFO? Theres a chance the rock adsorbed phosphate and is now leaching. The rocks surface is high in phosphates even if the water column is not. Is the algae only growing on rock, or is it growing elsewhere as well? Thats likely the biggest clue if the nutrients feeding the bloom are being mined from rock or the water column.
 

dazzamx

Member
Feb 24, 2015
64
16
That's a shit algae to have.
I battled with it for months before I got on top of it.
 

Buddy

Member
Mar 13, 2012
3,142
1,526
This is along the lines of what i was thinking. Still these ecosystems are tricky little suckers to master.
Have you thought about getting another pair of test kits to back up your current results
I'm not suggesting getting a second hanna though, just a pair of Salifert PO4 and NO3
It's not unheard of to get a bad result from a test kit, even though i think you have the best 2 available.
It's also not unheard of to get an algae outbreak with low nutrients :(
Such an interesting and at times frustrating hobby :):Do_0:confused::banghead:cry
I actually had a new set of kits on order, just waiting for them to arrive :)

It's possible that there could have been a steady rise, there may have been an 'event' in the tank to kick it off. But it doesn't take long for low level plants and animals to take advantage of environmental conditions which suit their needs. There could have been a delay in the timing between the presence of these factors and when you tested. So many factors could be at play.

Maybe get your LFS to double check your parameters, this might save a bit of coin not having to buy more test kits. Do you have a sump with algae in it? Maybe increase the photoperiod of the light in the sump to get the algae in the sump to outcompete for the nutrients available.

I think the main thing is to increase water changes, make sure filter mediums are refreshed and improve the water quality and the equilibrium will slowly go back to what it was.
No refugium here. I think my LFS would charge me $10 - $15 to do a crappy API test, but since I have a set of new Salifert tests on the way I won't need to get the LFS to test.

When you initially replaced the new rock, were you running GFO? Theres a chance the rock adsorbed phosphate and is now leaching. The rocks surface is high in phosphates even if the water column is not. Is the algae only growing on rock, or is it growing elsewhere as well? Thats likely the biggest clue if the nutrients feeding the bloom are being mined from rock or the water column.
Yeah I had Rowaphos running for the entire cycle and kept it on until the phos was low. It was all dry "real reef rock". The glass also gets a bit of green algae bur not the hair type.

That's a shit algae to have.
I battled with it for months before I got on top of it.
I have had it in the past a few years ago, I just waited it out last time and it eventually just died off. I am not too fussed because my corals look great anyway!

Once my test kits arrive I will do a full test and also send off a Triton test to Cairns Marine and I will report back :)
Thanks for all the suggestions everyone :)
 

Savage Henry

Member
Feb 2, 2015
653
254
Whatever started it growing, there's something you are doing (or not doing) that's keeping it growing.

Either you're introducing too much nutrients (how much do you feed and what do you feed?) or the nutrient-removal system you use has failed.

How much light does the tank get?

Anyway, probably didn't have to say it as everyone would be thinking it.
 

Savage Henry

Member
Feb 2, 2015
653
254
You could also get yourself more herbivores or feed less the ones you already have.

My phosphates measurements have been around 0.64 or higher and my nitrates 2 or less (often 0.5 or less), for the past two years or so. I don't have sps so no problem there to worry about. I don't use any chemical removal system except for a small skimmer (under-skimmed compared to everyone else here). But, I do keep one wall of my tank glass for algae to grow on and I keep an eye on how much of that algae is getting eaten by my Yellow Tang and Coral Beauty. The Yellow Tang is useless at voluntary algae control compared to the Coral Beauty or a bristletooth tang.

I reduce my feeding of Nori when my fish are not taking care of the algae.

I think the Yellow Tang especially is lazy and will allow itself to be content on Nori if given the chance and will leave cleaning the rocks and tank wall alone.

Previously I had a bristletooth tang and when I got rid of that I did get the GHA and it took a while to go. The way I got rid of it was to reduce feeding all food types, especially the Nori.

So, I would be looking at reducing your feedings and forcing your herbivores to do their job.

Nori is suppose to be high in phosphates and I feed a fair bit of it now, but even with the high phosphate and relatively low nitrates I have no GHA. I do have some fine cyano so everything is not perfect.