Reef Discussion

[OSCAR85]

Ok for the first time I'm starting to get a phosphate problem.

tank has slightly lost its crystal clear clarity. now has yellowy green tinge

water perameters are

ph 8.3
nitrate 0.00
phosphate 0.16
light is only on for 7hrs 20 mins a day. Bulbs only 1 month old and good brand bulbs. t5
tank is not in sunlight.
Feed once a day ocean nutrition frozen mix
very good skimmer tunze 9410
the tank pump is 5000L hr on a 400L tank.
good water flow as well.
Top up evaporation with tap water.
use RO water with red sea coral pro salt mix and change 15% water every sunday.
Tank is low stocked.
Calcium 430ppm
Mag 1310ppm
kh9

I am using red sea NO3: P04-X
This is great for nitrate removal but have not phosphate.
I cannot continue to use this as the nitrate is already 0.00 so i have moved onto something more specific to phosphate removal.

Brightwelll phos E. i have been using this now for 7 days at recommended dosage and still no reduction. GRRRR.

Anyone used anything good? or can assist with advice

Thanks guys

 

[Sarg]

First thing you got to do is ditch the tap water top up that sounds like the only thing your doing wrong. Lots of people have success with rows phos but you have to run it in a reactor.

Good luck. I'm in the same boat :)

 

[MTG]

Green tinge isn't for phos try using some good quality carbon to clear that water right up, slowly bring the phos down a little also, I like phos e by bright well

 

[Salty]

Hey @OSCAR85, have look for some info on lanthanum chloride. Super effective, no side effect, cheap. Once you've done some reading if you've any questions let me know. Other wise the other end of the scale; rowaphos. Very effective but cost can add up. Good luck.

 

[MTG]

Hey @OSCAR85, have look for some info on lanthanum chloride. Super effective, no side effect, cheap. Once you've done some reading if you've any questions let me know. Other wise the other end of the scale; rowaphos. Very effective but cost can add up. Good luck.

dont forget it is very dangerous to use incorrectly or overdose, it is not for the faint of heart as it is rather easy to nuke a tank!

 

[Salty]

Why do you say dangerous and in what way do you think it is easy to nuke a tank????

 

[MTG]

Why do you say dangerous and in what way do you think it is easy to nuke a tank????

rapid phosphate reduction can cause a crash,overdosing has been recorded to get into the gills of fish killing them.

 

[MTG]

bit of light reading here.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1474839&highlight=lanthanum+chloride

 

[MTG]

randy holmes posts a word of warning
Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
I'm not a fan of lanthanum for several reasons. The first is that I do not know whether the elevated levels of lanthanum that may result in the tank water are totally benign for every organism we keep It may be, but it may not be.

My bigger concern is that the lanthanum phosphate is not actually removed from the system. Perhaps some is skimmed out, but I expect a lot of it just piles up on the bottom of the tank. It may become available through various processes (like passing through the gut of a sea cucumber), so I would prefer to see it actually exported. I have the same concern with dosing soluble iron to bind phosphate vs using GFO to bind phosphate (which is exported).

All that said, it may be a fine way to go. Much to my dismay, since it competes with my products (Renagel and Renvela; sevelamer hydrochloride and carbonate), lanthanum carbonate is used in people to bind phosphate from the GI tract.

 

[Salty]

Gee your all over me tonight. I better get specific ha?

dont forget it is very dangerous to use incorrectly or overdose, it is not for the faint of heart as it is rather easy to nuke a tank!

NOTE - As posted above I would also like to add that incorrect use or overdose of salt, RO, flake food and lighting may also nuke a tank!

Thanks for the link mtg. To all a good editorial that can be read in under 10 hours has been published in coral mag. Well worth the search and read.

Not contradicting randies post or for that fact anybody elses experience but that was posted 2008? The days of deep sand bed and hailides... Man I know of people who were still running bio balls in 2008. The hobby has evolved since then so please all take this into account, get with it ;).

Secondly not everything listed on the web is true or right :o, even what I'm saying could be a load. I don't know but would hope that advice given comes with some form of experience.

FWIW many commercial enterprises and public aquariums around the world have and currently continue to use Lanthanum Chloride and Lanthanam hexahydrate as means of phosphate control. Not to mention that many branded supplements and additive used regularly within the industry include Lanthanum as an ingredient. @MTG have you ever wondered what the active ingredient in brighwell phosphate e could be????????

http://brightwellaquatics.com/products/phosphat-et.php

Another good read
http://www.thereefuge.com.au/threads/brightwell-phosphate-e-liquid-binder.1777/

Just so no one is miss led or confused by my inital post ill takes this op to re-write it

hey Oscar, have look for some info on lanthanum chloride or lanthanum hexahydrate. These have proved very effective in phosphate control, many quote minimal to nil negative effects and it is very cost efficient. There is a mass of info available however please do not take this as gospel. Once you've done so feel free to pm myself if you've any questions. I also find Rowaphos very effective but it does have $$$ associated with it. Good luck. Oh just so you know lanthanum based discussions may also cause headaches. :(

 

[OSCAR85]

Thanks I'm going to try Rowaphos and also Brightwell purit. However not impressed with brightwell atm.
I'm going test phosphate in my tap water and RO water today. I will post results.
Thanks everyone.

 

[OSCAR85]

Green tinge isn't for phos try using some good quality carbon to clear that water right up, slowly bring the phos down a little also, I like phos e by bright well

Ive been using brightwell phos e for 7 days now. 30ml each day and have not seen a reduction. What was your turn around time with the product?

 

[Miller]

I use a avast reactor with carbon and phosguard(I think)
I have my phosphate down to 0
I had a bad case of cyano all over my tank now the water clean n clear
I would recommend that u get a reactor they are a good investment

 

[MTG]

that is a valid statement salty, im mainly talking from experience of watching people nuke their tanks with the stuff hats the only reason i show warning, not to fight with anyone whats right and wrong just observations of what can happen when overdosed,
a few of us have been very interested in what is in the phos e, phos buster and other phos binders along those lines, all the ones i have tried react differently to each other. there is no doubt that most of their main ingredient is lanth.
even overdosing with phos E can have a negative effect, i dosed to much a few years ago and killed off a few fish. live and learn!

 

[Kavi]

Newyorksteelo on youtube says he has tried phos ban n rowa both and rowa s 4 times better than phosban and recommends it.

 

[Sarg]

Thanks I'm going to try Rowaphos and also Brightwell purit. However not impressed with brightwell atm.
I'm going test phosphate in my tap water and RO water today. I will post results.
Thanks everyone.

Brightwell stuff appears to be good quality from the products I have used, what has probably happened is that your rocks and substrate have probably absorbed so phos and that may take a while to clear. i have been passivly dosing zeostart and zeobak for two weeks and havent seen any movemnet at all. Im sure it is working but it will just take time.

 

[OSCAR85]

I bought rawophos and some expensive carbon. hopefully it clears things up.
Took some pics too

i also tested ro water with my red sea coral pro salt mixed in and the phosphate was 0.08. so i might just change to using fresh sea salt.

 

[Salty]

What's you ro source. Have you check tds???? Def a prob there

 

[OSCAR85]

What's you ro source. Have you check tds???? Def a prob there

i don't have a tds meter. but from my understanding you can't just test for phos only using tds anyway.
i get ro from local fish store i assume its 0.00 before i add salt. i use red sea test kit and red sea coral pro salt. might just be the salt.

 

[MTG]

Sounds like a faulty test kit to me, rs had lots of faulty phos test kits did you get the new color chart? You need to test with a Hannah imo