Reef Discussion

Mar 1, 2014
229
100
@samParker I have bought from this guy before. Went to hi house to pic up as close enough to me. Does he have his own "store" or just on a community fb page?
 
E

ezza

Guest
trying to sell something as another item is actually completely illegal immoral behaviour and exactly the sort of thing a retailer can be fined $$$$ for. misrepresentation and "false advertising" is a punishable offence. i think there are some extremely poor practises becoming apparent. Hurstville Aquarium is advertising Florida Rics on their webpage. I do wonder what the reason is for the apparent banning of this type of ric from import. The AU govt webpage for Internationally endangered wildlife banned from import (CITES) doesn't show the Ric at all... so one would assume that possibly a registered importer might be allowed to bring them in and propogate them, and subsequently sell them around AU... I might go do a little more reading. If noone mentioned this, most people wouldn't even know they're not allowed.
 

TheJordans

Member
Mar 29, 2013
722
369
Sunbury
What a cracker! Sorry to hear this Sam, but I can't say I'm surprised!! I've seen a few ... let's call them "interesting" things going on on FB pages lately!! There's a reason that I removed my personal account/don't participate in the community pages etc - they get nasty!!

(Any of those who use FB regularly enough will know who the above seller is, though lol)

Re: the Flroidas
I have a LOT to say on the subject, but just deleted it al lol. Suffice it to say that I'm not pro-the-Flo lol

Unless you can PROVE the dates/origins of your Florida WITH DOCS past the date when the CITES agreements came in (like 30yrs ago or something!), then you're breaking the law. Not something I'd be interested in risking.

Thanks for sharing! :)
 

MagicJ

Moderator
Jul 11, 2011
9,650
3,761
Hobart, Tasmania
This has been a matter for wide discussion for quite a few years now. I have never had sufficient interest to investigate the legalities so thanks to @Aspidites for the post.

The Department has advised the Marine Aquarium Society of Western Australia (MASWA), who contacted the Department for clarification of this issue, that it is an offense under section 303GN of the EPBC Act for a person to be in possession of a regulated specimen (whether it is live, or non-live) that has been unlawfully imported into Australia.
The counter argument is that the specimen held was imported before the ban was put in place, or it is a frag of a specimen that was imported before the ban was put in place. I am not sure where the onus of proof lies but I would suggest that it is up to the Department to prove that it was imported after the ban which would not be an easy thing to do.

Personally, I don't understand why we allow fish to be imported but not corals but that is a subject for another time.
 

TheJordans

Member
Mar 29, 2013
722
369
Sunbury
And after just reading through some more of these responses, as a seller I can tell you right now that it would DRIVE ME BONKERS if people were asking "how much is this? How much is that? How much are these?" etc etc!!

The only time that I have EVER said to PM for prices was when we had some R yumas up. These attract a lot of negative and bitchy attention on some of the community pages. So rather than having our pics used without permission, we said "PM" so that we had a record of who had the pics. Everyone was sent the same pics with the prices WRITTEN ON THEM. This way people could compare amongst themselves and see that we'd been completely honest :) (In fact, I think I even discounted some for someone b/c they bought a couple! lol)

Not everyone is dodgy and out to rip you off. It's such a shame that so many have abused the trust of hobbiests, thus damaging the reputation for us all! :(
 

chimaera

enjoy the little things
May 13, 2012
5,473
2,295
Sandringham
This has been a matter for wide discussion for quite a few years now. I have never had sufficient interest to investigate the legalities so thanks to @Aspidites for the post.



The counter argument is that the specimen held was imported before the ban was put in place, or it is a frag of a specimen that was imported before the ban was put in place. I am not sure where the onus of proof lies but I would suggest that it is up to the Department to prove that it was imported after the ban which would not be an easy thing to do.

Personally, I don't understand why we allow fish to be imported but not corals but that is a subject for another time.
Yeah that is the usual come back if the legality of these is raised. Apparently ALL R.Floridas you see for sale were imported before they were illegal to import ... or so the sellers say. Would be interesting to know where the onus on proving this lies.
 

MichelleShocked

Moderate ;)
Jan 7, 2012
2,310
1,021
Gladstone
i saw this listing and conversation @Sam Parker
- I actually had a heated discussion with the seller regarding the legality of buying/selling Floridas. He demanded I show him where it is illegal. I replied that since I'm not buying or selling them, its not my job to tell him - the onus is on him and his customers. A Reefuge member who also sells Floridas got rather rude in that conversation also but I ignored him because his agenda was clear. I also had someone offer me Floridas on FB yesterday. I asked for a price and also for the legal status of Floridas. The seller
replied that they know its illegal to "import" Floridas but as far as far as they are concerned, its fine to sell them once they are here and that they feel there's a lot of lies and rumours on the subject. I replied that MY understanding was that since it is illegal to import Floridas and since they are not (as far as we currently know) endemic to Australia, Authorities will simply assume that if you own Floridas, you must have imported them. As for the argument that your specific Florida is a frag from one that was imported BEFORE it was illegal, I am pretty sure it won't work for 2 reasons:
1) you can't prove your Florida IS a frag from an early import.
2) they can't prove it isnt.
They are not going to screw around with DNA samples (such as for proving liniage of protected native birds) and they will certainly NOT admit they are wrong. They will simply over-rule you and destroy your whole collection and fine you.
Because that is how such departments roll. :(
 

MichelleShocked

Moderate ;)
Jan 7, 2012
2,310
1,021
Gladstone
this topic is now a big thing on FB marine forums now. Seems that due to the number of people selling Floridas now - and the far from cheap price tag - more and more people are asking about the legal status of them.
 

holly

Member
Jul 10, 2013
1,806
832
Melbourne
'If you have to ask you can't afford it' comes to mind when I see this stuff online.

For me, it's more like 'If I have to ask I am immediately suspicious of you and put you in the same category as dodgy builders and mechanics. Good day sir/madame.'
 

Sam Parker

Moderator
May 6, 2013
4,802
2,397
Geelong
'If you have to ask you can't afford it' comes to mind when I see this stuff online.

For me, it's more like 'If I have to ask I am immediately suspicious of you and put you in the same category as dodgy builders and mechanics. Good day sir/madame.'
I agree, when that phrase comes up - I often think "If you have to ask, your obviously overcharging...."
 
E

ezza

Guest
I hate bullies.

...and I work for the government. True dat.
 
E

ezza

Guest
you can kind of read the guy's name from the pic, just type it in google search and he comes up straight away...

on the subject of un-listed prices, @Sam Parker , did you see the response on the FB page you put the "internet allergic to posting prices" comment? I asked in more detail and was told that competitors would bitch and moan as they have priced the item at a fraction of what others would charge.

I would love to have access to a price guide which would give a bit of an idea about what you should expect to pay for stuff. maybe we could compile something for member use.
 

Sam Parker

Moderator
May 6, 2013
4,802
2,397
Geelong
you can kind of read the guy's name from the pic, just type it in google search and he comes up straight away...

on the subject of un-listed prices, @Sam Parker , did you see the response on the FB page you put the "internet allergic to posting prices" comment? I asked in more detail and was told that competitors would bitch and moan as they have priced the item at a fraction of what others would charge.

I would love to have access to a price guide which would give a bit of an idea about what you should expect to pay for stuff. maybe we could compile something for member use.
Pretty bullshit answer hey! How terrible for them, competition complaining about their prices and consequently starting a price war. Consumers hate that...,