Masa / Rtaw - A Vendetta Against The Reefuge?

Discussion in 'News' started by The Reefuge, Mar 14, 2015.

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  1. ezza

    ezza Guest

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    I don't think it's childish. I think childish is deleting threads on a forum for no reason.

    Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
  2. Ollie

    Ollie Member

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    Lol
    Wow I won't Ezza
    I shared An opinion ezza, not allowed? , or is this the same as the masa you all hate? Full of people who attack you for sharing a differing opinion
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  3. ezza

    ezza Guest

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    Share whatever opinions you wish to. That's the point of being here... I'm not attacking you honey. If I did, I'd leave teeth marks :D
  4. Ollie

    Ollie Member

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    It's ok, must have had the door slammed on my back,
  5. ezza

    ezza Guest

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    No, that was cos you said you were leaving... So when you leave... Don't let the door hit you on the way out... It hurts obviously. You don't want a bruised botbot.

    Can't we all just love our aquariums together and fuck the politics?
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  6. Ollie

    Ollie Member

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    Lol
    No i got it ezza :) but thanks for explaining.
    And. Fuckijg the politics was sort of my point ;)
  7. holly

    holly Member

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    I think the structure and sheer membership size of the rtaw forums creates so much work that people may just start being overzealous and spend less and less time thinking over their delete/not to delete decisions. I'd hate to think that their decisions are being driven by a need to retain some sort of power position by trying to prevent progressive sites like the Reefuge becoming popular. There's huge value in joining the MASx groups and there's huge value in supporting the Reefuge with a vip membership. I've comfortably done both for a few years a now.

    Maybe RTAW has been there so long that to change anything would be like the opposition encountered at my old uni when anyone even farted differently. It took a team of 8 people two years of meetings, drafts, arguments etc to write one of three parts of an induction manual for the psych clinic. It essentially didn't change anything from the old one as the people that had been there for 20+ years opposed any changes, even the obviously positive ones....

    I say let your freaky flag fly and if some of the kids on the playground don't want to be your friend, respect their decision and move on. Alternatively try to figure out common ground. I don't know the people who run the site so don't know their hearts or minds. I hope they're open to your position on the matter.
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2015
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  8. The Reefuge

    The Reefuge Administrator

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    Hi @Ollie,

    I completely understand where you are coming from, which is why making the post in the first place was difficult for me. However, please try to understand where I am coming from. The point I am trying to raise is that as a masov member, masa represents me. I should expect the same treatment as all other businesses who are masX members, and herein lies the problem.

    The Reefuge is a place that is still growing, but everything is provided to the members for free. I have no issue with how masa is run, but where I do have the issue is being a paid member and getting treated like a disease.

    To sum up everything I have tried to do, here it is in dot points.

    • The Reefuge became a member of masov
    • The Reefuge registered as a business to provide masov members with discounts, etc - The registration was declined.
    • The Reefuge also registered on masa as a business in order to not break the rules - The registration was declined.
    • The Reefuge offered free tools to masX groups to help them gain members - The offer was declined.
    • I was personally told by a mod/admin that mods/admins on rtaw actively delete links to The Reefuge - This prevents people from knowing we exist and hinders our growth. The reason for this is counter-intuitive to the purpose it serves.
    • The Reefuge offered RTAW a complete API in order for RTAW members to have better tools on the RTAW website - The offer was declined.
    • I was making a suggestion in the suggestion forum on RTAW - The suggestion was deleted - Twice.
    • I was replying to a thread posted by one of your members explaining a situation that was obviously not understood correctly by one of your other members - The post was deleted.
    • I had also, at a stage, offered for The Reefuge and MASA/RTAW to work together in order to make things better for the online reefing community - The offer was declined.
    The problem I have is there is nowhere I can post, as a masov member on the RTAW forums without either running into a brick wall or having my posts get deleted. The issue I raise is not how your moderation is done, it is unfair treatment of masX members. That is the reason for this post.

    I would also like to point out I really would have preferred to post it on the RTAW forums, but I am guessing it would have gotten deleted. At least here there is a chance I can get some answers.

    Thanks.


    Ezza, you know better than to talk to members like that. Please debate, but keep it polite.

    Thanks.
  9. Ollie

    Ollie Member

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    Thanks for the reply
    I do understand the points you made,

    What I'm wondering is why? You have a whole site you have spent a lot of time, dedication And no doubt money to create,
    If you didn't have a political motive, you would have discussed with masa, (I know you have, once , and I know you were turned down) but that was regarding two certain posts, how many others have been deleted? And besides all that... this sort of thing happens everywhere, it's such a small issue to your life, and anyone here, so why create a thread basicly naming and shaming? Now I have a theory, but that doesn't really matter, it won't change anything.
    Masa is a site run by a few volunteers, and with a site like Masa and even this site you are at the mercy of the group running it. And I'm sure your not perfect, maybe close ... ;)
    Now at the time this all went down 6-8 months ago? Masa was copping a lot of issues internally and externally, and your timing to ask to join up was terrible timing, again you may or may not have known that, but it was the desision of a few people not a whole group of thousand. And with patience and comunication that could change.

    Just think this is below you as I can't see what the out come is other then to create a anti masa campaign.
    And for he record, I am just a person who have taken a lot from masa, not pro masa and anti reefuge. I love them all,
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2015
  10. OSCAR85

    OSCAR85 Member

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    although some ilke @Ollie may feel and think that the post is unhelpful (and your very welcome to post that, feel that and not have it deleted...unlike elsewhere lol)

    But i find it a healthy accurate comparison and i think people should be able to access information about website performance and values.
    Such as the examples provided ...post being deleted by more than one user and mission statements.
    Just because the reefuge is writing about masa doesn't mean its all bias…its easy to point that finger though. Judge the thread on its factual content and feel free to participate freely with respect like @Ollie did do.

    My opinion
    I think its shit btw that your post get deleted for no reason.
    Mission statement is misleading based on examples provided.
    There is little coaching for newbies and no sense of inclusion for new users
    Don't like the navigation of the site.
    People don't seem as nice (personally)
    And it think masa is shit lol (personally)

    I also had the reefuge correct someone for making a homophobic comment. I can't say the same about masa though...a bit disappointing.
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2015
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  11. Savage Henry

    Savage Henry Member

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    I will say upfront that I continue to use, and that I like, both MASA and Thereefuge.

    I came to Thereefuge after suggestions by one of your members after a fallout from MASS. I am really here because I would still like to be involved in a local Sydney-based internet marine-aquarium-focused group, but felt that from a professional point of view, I could not remain a member of MASS. As people I know who were at that time from MASS are here, this is principally why I am here. I have nothing against current members of MASS.

    I will make one point about MASA and I say this with some resistance because I feel there are a lot of great people on MASA who give great advice to newbies and everyone else. There are some MASA people who probably don't like me because of my contributions on MASS and whilst I feel that it is unfortunate that they feel this way, I still like them nonetheless.

    So, I felt there was bullying going on in MASS and that is why I did not renew my membership with that organisation. I felt that if I remained a member, I would have to report what was going on. Online bullying is a topic that I do have an interest in pursuing. I feel that I have a greater obligation to report such activity or at least not to have any involvement with an organisation that I believe allows bullying in this manner to occur.

    The reason why I mention this is because, as I understand it, there were members of MASA that were called in to moderate the MASS forums at the time I felt bullying was occurring on MASS. I believe that the MASA representatives involved should have intervened and should have had removed threads that I felt were not appropriate. As those threads remained published, or were deleted, in my view after an unreasonable amount of time had expired, I lost some faith in MASA.

    So my point is that I feel that MASA does not moderate posts fairly. If it did, I believe it would surely have stopped some of the conduct that was occurring on MASS.
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  12. Ollie

    Ollie Member

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    I
    i totally agree with you mate, well said
  13. MQ-9

    MQ-9 Member

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    So my point is that I feel that MASA does not moderate posts fairly.

    This is very true. Those few in power manipulate and bully. Think back to when butters was very active there, and the forum had an excellent vibe. Now its not about embracing the hobby. Its just about maintaining the status quo. I really dont like how new posters are treated there. Forums where a members worth is measured by their post count, is never going to be friendly to new members.
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  14. Savage Henry

    Savage Henry Member

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    I'll also just say, that when I first posted on MASA I discussed feeding mosquito larvae to marine fish. I had an adverse reaction from some high-comment-count members. The reason why I mentioned the feeding of mosquito larvae to marine fish was because I had noted over many years how pools of mosquito larvae along the coast get washed into the sea during high seas or during heavy rain. I knew about this because I would to collect mosquito larvae to feed to my freshwater fish at that time and would find none during rain or heavy seas.

    I also had had he advantage of having dived in coral lagoons in the Cook Islands and having experienced first hand the run off of fresh water into these lagoons and having had observed the corals that were exposed to said runoff.

    Anyway, I got absolutely hammered over the suggestion of feeding mosquito larvae to marine fish. But, I later noted that enthusiasts buy black mosquito larvae to feed to marine fish...

    Anyway, if you have been reading MASA recently you may have noticed a post from a guy living in the Northern Territory who collects his own corals during low tide. It is not surprising that his comments about the corals have included facts such that the corals are exposed at low tide etc. This persons comments are GOLD in my opinion. This should make an enthusiast consider that these same corals would be exposed to loads of freshwater during the rainy season up there or atleast exposed to low salinity water.

    It should also come as no surprise that some of the corals we buy probably come from similar areas that this guy describes.

    Yet, some people on MASA seem to be set on advice about corals that is idealised on the perfect reef where all parameters are absolutely stable.

    It really pisses me off when someone is put down for putting forward an idea such as the possibility that fish in reef environments might occasionally eat mosquito larvae or that corals might actually like to be exposed for periods of time or that some corals might like the odd nip of fresh water.

    When I posted on MASA comments about feeding fish mosquito larvae and received the negative feedback I received, I would have run away with my tail between my legs but for the supporting comments I received in private messages from members who encouraged my outlandish comments and who advised me not to be put off by the opinions of high-comment-count members.
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  15. MagicJ

    MagicJ Moderator

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    It appears that we operate in exactly the same way then @Ollie.
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  16. newbiereef

    newbiereef Member

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    i got into a fight with people on there re clowns they told me you could not house more than 2 clowns in a tank as they would kill each other yet i have seen it in various tanks 5 or 6 small and 1 large one the tank was a 400 ltr comer set up with a nem . they where saying it never happens yet as an avid scuba diver i have seen it in the wild female reigns as queen over her harem

    and also attacked me re my 1st fish list said along line of you have made up your mind when i questioned why

    to be honest the site is crap
  17. coral1

    coral1 Member

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    As a member of Masov you CAN post in the masov forum !!!
    please dont judge all masa members because you dont like the moderating of a few volenteers
    without a doubt like all public forums there are things that we think could be done different ,like ollie said its run by a few volunteers, but the majority of members are both helpful and friendly .
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  18. Ollie

    Ollie Member

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    Lol
    Yes! In many ways You are run the same way, you are just a platform, it's the members who make it. I enjoyed the members I met, and I even have made some amazing friendships from it, and I have a fight with someone... I don't blame the site. It's what you make from it!
    Man, why don't you start a thread about facbook groups? I know some people who have commented here have attacked newwbs on Facebook!
    Ahh it's all so pathetic , I just have to keep reminding my self... its a thread bitching about a site designed to talk about fish tanks...
    Real world problem... Don't think so
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  19. Oceanarium

    Oceanarium Member

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    I enjoy and use both sites and really don't give a shit about politics either way.

    There twits in all walks of life and no law to stop them becoming a moderator or a know all in all things marine, there are also a lot more good people.

    I have been banned from MASA previously, said something in innocence after a few red wines someone completely miss understood and was summarily executed with no offer of defense. Poor form from MASA to not offer even some communication to try sort it out, but my own stupid fault too.

    MASA is a great resource, sure not perfect and most of the issues raised here I 100% agree with, though in balance i get a hell of a lot more good than bad out of MASA. I have to say a good portion of what i have learned through practice comes from information and ideas on both sites.

    I would also say I am one of those volunteers for MASWA, a great bunch and good friends doing great things for the hobby. I might not 100% agree with everyone all the time but hey it is not that important.

    This does seem somewhat a slag at MASA as a whole by those who may feel they have been done wrong, but good does come with the bad there !
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  20. holly

    holly Member

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    I think it's hard to express your frustrations without sounding like you're having a go. It looks to me like the Reefuge hasn't felt heard over there and so has posted grievances in a place where it is unlikely to be removed and thus will be discussed. I've had stuff I've posted on RTAW with my business account edited appropriately as I've broken some rules without realising it and have received very polite PMs from that particular mod letting me know their reasoning. I don't know if that is the norm for all posts that are edited or deleted.

    I hope that whoever the Reefuge is referring to can see the post in a neutral light and be open to the opportunity for improvement and an open discussion of the issues that have been raised. Keeping a stance of open mindedness and not taking personal offence even in the face of criticism helps everyone resolve things like this.

    MASOV in particular are a great bunch of warm, accepting people who i see constantly trying to improve the community at events, LFSs etc so I agree with @Ollie on the point about separating the people from the platform.
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