Tank Journal Archive

[ezza]

I lost my Gold Head Sleeper Goby :( I haven't had him for very long in the scheme of things. He has always been a voracious eater and very active guy so I thought it worthwhile to perform an autopsy to see if it was a fireworm, or some other obvious cause.

Cutting his belly open revealed a considerably large stone (eye size or larger) like calcareous formation in his abdomen. It would have been blocking the hole used to excrete waste.

I was able to break the stone after a lot of trying and came to the conclusion it was a kidney stone. I googled and found a link to a frighteningly expensive E-book...

There is info on pages 95-96 talking about how the stones are caused by things like too much bicarbonate, too high dissolved carbon dioxide in the water etc... It totally makes sense. I have been dosing with Randy's Recipe lately but maybe I need to reconsider. I don't know if I caused this death, my fish are generally happy and healthy and I haven't lost anyone for a long time...

I'm needing to do a water change this weekend. I might run the full barrage of tests too and see if anything is crazy off.

 

[slin1977]

Very interesting, my thoughts would lead to perhaps exposure to precipitates of elements such as an undisolved slurry of calcium bi carbonate. Unlikely to affect non substrate feeders.

 

[Savage Henry]

Great work Ezza!

If you have the stone, perhaps you could try dissolving a fragment of it in vinegar (watch for bubbles).

You could also rinse a fragment in freshwater, then try dissolving it in freshwater and test the Ph of the resulting solution.

Could also test it in a similar way to see whether it has phosphates etc in it.

 

[Franklin Dattein]

Certainly something curious, but very unlikely to be the case, in my opinion.
This is why:
- It is a fish notorious for being short lived in captivity, due to diet deficiency, so its sudden death is no surprise.
- They chew sand all the time, so finding calcarious stones in its belly would be expected. It could just as well be a grain of sand that got stuck and the weird looking is due to it being digested for a while.
- Ca and Alk supplementation is done for decades, in pretty much every reef system. If it was the cause of stones in fish, I have thought it would have been pretty well documented by now.

In other words, I wouldn't suggest changing alk/ca supplements because of this episode.

 

[ezza]

Certainly something curious, but very unlikely to be the case, in my opinion.
This is why:
- It is a fish notorious for being short lived in captivity, due to diet deficiency, so its sudden death is no surprise.
- They chew sand all the time, so finding calcarious stones in its belly would be expected. It could just as well be a grain of sand that got stuck and the weird looking is due to it being digested for a while.
- Ca and Alk supplementation is done for decades, in pretty much every reef system. If it was the cause of stones in fish, I have thought it would have been pretty well documented by now.

In other words, I wouldn't suggest changing alk/ca supplements because of this episode.

Thanks for your feedback. It was not sand. I was very thorough and broke the stone up and it was a conglomeration of minerals that were just a mass. The sand I use is very fine and his gills worked fine. My fish are all well fed and healthy.

I'm a bad bad lady, a few weeks ago I was a bit slack and I actually added bicarbonate that hadn't been baked. I've done a couple of dodgy additions of minerals recently when I was sick with the flu. It wouldn't surprise me if I caused it. I use Randy's Recipe, so am adding damp rid, Epsom salts and bicarbonate soda. Not the most perfect supps.

Oh and I dissected the fish fully, checked its gills and throat- they are designed to not swallow sand. His oeophageal and intestinal tracts were in perfect condition. His heart was tiny and beautiful. The stone was outside of the food processing section of innards and was sitting in that abdo cavity where the urine and faecal matter is excreted right near the hole. It just would not have been able to pass.

Great work Ezza!

If you have the stone, perhaps you could try dissolving a fragment of it in vinegar (watch for bubbles).

You could also rinse a fragment in freshwater, then try dissolving it in freshwater and test the Ph of the resulting solution.

Could also test it in a similar way to see whether it has phosphates etc in it.

I wish I had thought of that before I was done. I disposed of everything after the autopsy was completed.

Very interesting, my thoughts would lead to perhaps exposure to precipitates of elements such as an undisolved slurry of calcium bi carbonate. Unlikely to affect non substrate feeders.

I think you are absolutely correct mate. With the big rock adjustments I have done lately I have blown all kinds of crud around the tank and he quite possibly has developed the stone as a result of my momentary lapse in careful husbandry.

 

[slin1977]

@ezza - good autopsy work there.
It's good to get closure and answers.

 

[MagicJ]

Nice work @ezza.

I'm not sure about your findings but these are a notoriously difficult fish to keep alive for any length of time, especially in relatively small aquariums. They are prone to intestinal worms which eventually results in starvation, even if they appear to be eating.

 

[ezza]

Nice work @ezza.

I'm not sure about your findings but these are a notoriously difficult fish to keep alive for any length of time, especially in relatively small aquariums. They are prone to intestinal worms which eventually results in starvation, even if they appear to be eating.

Thanks @MagicJ , there were no worms. I once had guppies and they had callamanus worms. Just horrendous, I have bird wormer which is safe for fish. He really was a very healthy guy.