Reef Discussion

MagicJ

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Jul 11, 2011
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Hobart, Tasmania
Neptune Systems Acquires Rights To Automated Alkalinity Monitoring Invention
An interesting development :)


awww_reef2reef_com_attachments_1_jpg_415869__.jpg


http://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ne...mated-alkalinity-monitoring-invention.271653/

awww_reef2reef_com_attachments_alk_mon_jpg_415863__.jpg



I have been following this thread - http://www.reef2reef.com/threads/automatic-regular-unattended-alkalinity-monitoring.264562/ - for the past month or so - Jim Welsh has been involved in the hobby for some time and has been actively involved in breeding some marine species. It's good to see that he might have been rewarded for his hard work.

I wonder what the 'exclusive rights' actually means?
 

Wrangy

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May 7, 2013
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I am not surprised by this and they would have paid through the nose for it!! He wasn't going to sell it to anyone but I bet at macna he would have got some unbelievable offers!

From my understanding it's to do with measuring pH , light absorption and a reactant but the way it actually works is a very closely guarded secret from what I've read lol
 

Wrangy

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Exclusive rights will mean no one else can use his technology or buy it and create their own version of. It's just a cover to make sure he sells it to anyone else! Lol
 

slin1977

Member
Jul 13, 2011
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Sydney
This is something I am adding to my Wishlist.

Managed to neglect monitoring my tank for three weeks and crashed KH to 4.6
Bounced it back to normal levels at 7.0

This will be a much anticipated product.
 

Wrangy

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Bit I wonder if Neptune will only make it available on their own system, or if they will produce a stand alone version?
500% only compatible with their system , forces people to buy an Apex as well as the bloody expensive doser haha hence the exclusive rights as well.

It would definitely make me strongly consider an Apex just for it!
 

Sam Parker

Moderator
May 6, 2013
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Geelong
Yeah still not sure if this is good or bad. Good that someone as big as Neptune bought it to mass produce (cheaper), bad that they will most certainly change the output so that it can not work with a basic ph controller setup.

Hopefully it will be easy to 'hack' back to the version as it sits now and I can hook up to a basic weipro ph controller that controls the feed pump to the calcium reactor. Would make life simple!!
 

Mattres

Member
May 26, 2015
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Adelaide
Definitely is the holy grail, just a shame Neptune bought it.
Most certainly will need an Apex Controller.
So what would it cost to own?
How much is an Apex? $800?
Plus maybe another $500 for the unit?
Then they may make u have to buy their regents?
Probably still worth owning.. Haha:p

There is another guy who has made a device like this though, some people might follow shih87's tank on RC.
He lives in Taiwan and has a mate he calls "Dr Bridge". I beleive he loves making things but he invented an auto Alk doser and monitor.
He ran it for 9 months with only 10% fluctuation. I think shih87 and another guy run one each.
Hopefully one day there are a few of these devices around!

Link: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=23420654#post23420654

Acutally this link lists some nice info, apparently scheduled for retail in Q3 2016... Interesting: https://reefs.com/2016/02/13/diy-automated-alkalinity-controller/
 
Last edited:
Sep 24, 2013
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Palm Beach
Jim's alk monitor is a genius invention. It is simple idea, a simple implementation and has a huge potential.
It is basically an automated Hanna egg. The system was very well designed and should be cheap to produce. The reagent shouldn't cost more than a Alk refill from Red Sea.
Neptune's gear is not very expensive for what it offers, so I think the price tag for the alk monitor will be very realistic.

The Asian competitor, works with a totally different method (hence non-conflicting patents), based on measuring pH variation after injecting an acid in the sample. I wasn't impressed when I first saw it, there is too much to go wrong, it is bulky and uses too much expensive hardware, which will make hard for them to compete for price.
 

Sam Parker

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May 6, 2013
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Yeah I've been silently following the other method as well, but am not convinced it is reliable either.

Agree that this looks to just be a Hanna egg with an output and a single peri pump mixing the fluids.

Hopefully uses less than 1ml of reagent a test or they'll need to sell it by the 20l bucket load.

Also, you'll need a drain for the spent test samples. Skimmer cup is easy option, but you'd want to keep an eye on it if you don't have a drain connection.
 

NiCd

Lead Moderator
Jul 29, 2011
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What advantage would this have over the mind stream that promises to do alk, calc, K,ph, co2, salinity, temp, o2 as well as your ph ?
 

NiCd

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Jul 29, 2011
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When did alk get dumped from it? its still being advertised as it will have it :(
 

Sam Parker

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May 6, 2013
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When did alk get dumped from it? its still being advertised as it will have it :(
My apologies, they are still planning on having it. Hard to tell actually as their website is deliberately being a bit shy on what parameters it will support now. Sadly, it seems as if they are going backwards quicker than forwards. This alk monitor/doser will beat it to market and be done. Nitrate and phosphate could be done the same way and then mindstream is a thing of the past. Especially seeing as the replacement disks are likely to cost more than reagent bottles
 

MagicJ

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Jul 11, 2011
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I suspect that it will be a fair while before we see a commercial version. It's OK for a DIY model to have the occasional hiccup, but not for a commercial version - it will take some time to iron out all of the issues to the point where it is rock solid.
 

Sam Parker

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May 6, 2013
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Geelong
I suspect that it will be a fair while before we see a commercial version. It's OK for a DIY model to have the occasional hiccup, but not for a commercial version - it will take some time to iron out all of the issues to the point where it is rock solid.
I'm fairly sure commercial units already exist, they are just exorbitantly expensive. Might be wrong, but I'm sure I saw it on a lab somewhere
 

NiCd

Lead Moderator
Jul 29, 2011
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Alk crashes have been 9/10 of my issues in the last dozen years so Im very keen for some sort of continuous monitoring/alarm but I prefer the idea of something a bit more compact and that does multiple items (although I really dont give a shit about ph etc)