Reef Discussion

[Scottrotton]

Hi Guys,

Could use a little advise, my Ammonia and nitrite levels are pretty stable, I do get a spike of one or the other everynow and again and that spike tends to be in the 0.25 region but usually only lasts around 12 hours.
The problem I have is Nitrates, my tank is about 2 months old. Cycled pretty quickly, I added to many fish to start with which I promised myself I was going to do but live and learn,

1 yellow head goby
1 flame angel
2 Perc Clown
2 Chromis
Im in the process of trying to catch the Chromis and maybe the goby to reduce the stress on my tank.

Back to the nitrate problem.
Yesterday 7am I tested my water and it was 0-5PPM Nitrate which I can live with, this morning I tested it and it’s at 20-40 PPM, surely this isn’t right!!!

I dosed 5ML of Prime and 8ML of RSM NOPROX before I left for work but it’s starting to become unmanageable. I do about a 75Litre water change each week and my last one was Monday I think.

I have also bought a 14watt light and macro algea for my sump until I have finished my refugium.

Additional Info,
RSM 400 - Lights are on 12 hours a day 100% with staggered on off 1 hour each way.
Temp is hovering 80C but im in the process of buying a chiller as im sick of having the aircon on in lounge room 24/7 lol.

Other tests I have done,
Phosphates were at 0.34 yesterday
Calcium was at 450
PH 8.2

There the only test kits I have at the min, Any advice is appreciated

 

[NiCd]

I would say its a matter of too much too soon, your phosphates are also really bad.

You can change what you are feeding to less and higher quailty, this reduces alot of waste and these assocaited notrient issues, check you RO is actually clean, skimm more agressively, clean the neck of the skimmer twice a day, remove any wool, floss or other garage that came with your sump, when you do water changes such the mulm ect from out of the sump.

Nopox isnt a once off hit, it needs to used in a very controlled manner, water changes are your best bet at this stage along with trying to impliment some of the above. your system will get better over time but it is just going to be a bit of work imbetween.

Things like DSB's or the 4" thick marine pure blocks are good solutions for longer term nitrate issues but I would hazard to say this may pass and wouldnt recomend implimenting these until it is seen as a long term issue, not just something with your cycle.

 

[NiCd]

BTW 80*c?????

 

[Scottrotton]

BTW 80*c?????

80F lol well picked up, thanks for your advise, I already skim very heavily but I don't clean everyday, the built in self clean is crap and RSM didn't leave much room to get the cup of its a real pain, suppose its something they will fix in the next instalment along with LED lights :)

I currently feed brine shrimp, marine pellets and ocean flake, I try to rotate. Can you recommend anything better. Also if anyone wants 2 Chromis let me know if I catch them tonight will have to kill them as the pet store wont be open when I get back from work. (key word here is IF I CATCH THEM, These guys are too fast)

as far as the NOPROX goes I intend to stick with half manufactures dosage for the first week and then increase it in the coming weeks, do you still think just leave it out for now? water changes are difficult.

So take out the sponge? should I use anything else instead, live rock down there or something? I was also thinking do I need more live rock in my DT, willing to ruin my aquascape and cram it in if its understocked but that's what I was hoping for the Refugium.

 

[NiCd]

Issue I see with nopox is you need to constantly stick with it, if you are going to do it, set it up on a dosing pump so it always happens.

I also find it a knife edge to balance with, I know you are a RS boy through and through but perhaps look at Zeo Start 3, its more pricey but it just seems more stable and also has some added things to help you out once you get hit with the redfield ratio issue that will no doubt come soon enough.

I wouldnt add more LR unless you can get it at the right density which I am not sure how you are going to go with you caribsea stuff as that is really like concrete and you are getting little to no filtration out of it. I would recomend the 4" marine pure blocks I think 1 is rated to 600l so one or two of those can basically run your whole tank.

NLS would be my pick food wise, elos is meant to be better again but it comes down to cost a bit. The pellets are pretty well nutriently complete so you can if you wanted to feed them exclusivly that, but I think we all like to endulge our fish with other things. Brine shrimp basically only contribute to the fish whatever is in their stomache, you are basically just adding unessicary nutrients to the tank.

 

[Scottrotton]

Yeah with the live rock I have about 20KG of Carib Sea-Dry, found out how heavy and crap it is and 20KG of Fuji which seems so much better, although I did get my stupid Mantis shimps with the Fuji.

I going with the Marine Pure blocks will place an order tonight when i've scouted for the best price.

Fish are going on a shrimpless diet then thanks :)

Will do a little reading on Zeo Start 3 tonight and see what its all about, the Reviews on RSM NOPROX seemed ok and I got it free from RSM so thought I would try it.

RS Boy lol, they just marketed right for me, I'm already eyeing up my next creation based on a 650L CADE system but dont tell the misses she would be well and truly pissed!!! But first I need to get this right.

Thanks for all your help mate its much appreciated, would be pretty screwed without this forum

 

[NiCd]

happy to help mate, remember I am just around the corner and wouldnt mind seeing this all up and running :)

 

[Scottrotton]

OK let me know when your free next after this weekend as im in Darwin till Sunday, wouldnt mind some inspiration form yours too before I make my next big purchase

 

[Scottrotton]

So just a quick update, I managed to buy a Zeo Start 3 for a LFS. More expensive the usual but if it works Its worth it, no one around here seems to be able to source the marine pure 4", well no one that was open late night anyway so im going to buy online and will just have to wait, had a huge algae bloom when I came home tonight which I was expecting. Will do a 25% water change tomorrow until Sunday then reassess.

I also found a crappy aquaone tank for my QT or sump depending on which road I go down, either way its going where my Chiller should be and im having that on the outside.

Will keep you posted maybe someone else needs the info in future.

 

[Ian G]

How old is your tank?

Unless you have something die you should not be seeing ammonia at all. Forget Nitrites, they're irrelevant once the tank is cycled.
Before getting all fancy you need to fix the base cause. Ammonia turns into nitrites, nitrites into nitrates.

There are two schools of thought on phosphate, many corals (not sps) grow better with phosphates of up to 0.25. Many believe some phosphate needs to be present for soft corals, zoas, morphs, etc to grow.

Growing & harvesting pulsing xenia will also reduce nitrates a lot.

Note in my seeding tank which has NO filtration & NO skimming & only monthly water changes of 25%, I always have zero ammonia & nitrate so as I said, work on the base problem or you'll be chasing your tail forever. By all means use nitrate remover (if it works) but work on that ammonia which is highly toxic to fish.

Good Luck

 

[Scottrotton]

2 months ish, I agree with you both i took these steps.

1, bought zeo start and marine pure cube 4".
2, installed marine pure to the sump it's fits perfectly where the carbon should go on the rsm 400, I then used a basket to install the carbon next to the marine pure block. I also took about half of the sponge out. Will remove the rest in 2 weeks.
3, created a qt tank and moved all fish except the 2 which I had to put down RIP Chromis.
4, removal of all sand from the tank and bought a ehiem gravel cleaner. Will get some more sand when I'm stable
5, general maintenance 20% wc and cleaning of skimmer etc


You think I should do anything else?

Will re introduce the fish over then next month put going to keep the yellow headed gobie in the qt tank

In total I will have 3 fish in the main tank to keep the load low for at least the next month

2 small perc clowns
1 flame angel

Sent from iPad so sorry for typos

 

[Scottrotton]

Quick question

With the mp 4" blocks do I need my sump light on?

 

[Ian G]

Are you aware that all but the best activated carbons will release phosphate into your tank. Only buy that which states it's phosphate free".

Also removing sand will upset the eco balance of your tank. Expect a nitrate spike.

 

[Scottrotton]

Are you aware that all but the best activated carbons will release phosphate into your tank. Only buy that which states it's phosphate free".

Also removing sand will upset the eco balance of your tank. Expect a nitrate spike.

I wasnt aware of the phosphates being release but I thought this way, correct me if I'm wrong please.

Algae needs both nitrates and phos to live so if I completely remove nitrates even if there are trace phos algae won't grow?

Yeah I know removing the sand would play with Eco system I will be ready to dose prime 2x daily in order not to damage the corals

 

[Scottrotton]

Are you aware that all but the best activated carbons will release phosphate into your tank. Only buy that which states it's phosphate free".

Also removing sand will upset the eco balance of your tank. Expect a nitrate spike.

Btw my Rsm comes with phos free activated carbon but thanks for the info was very useful

 

[Scottrotton]

Just test my nitrates agagin and it was as follows,

Sat 0 PPM
Sun 5 PPM
Today 140+ PPM

On Saturday I added 2 clowns back into the main tank from QT as there were just too many fish in the 55L QT.

I expected a small Ammonia spike which I got 0.25

No nitrite issues but my tank has all of a sudden shot up nitrates. I only tested becuase ive got some bright grren algae showing, strange as its only showing on the clean rocks (ones without any coraline or other algae on it)

Anyway ive added some prime to the tank again so the corals should be fine.

I have about 1/3 of the black sponge left in the sump which is what it says to do on the marine pure info.

Should I just leave the nitrates and hope the algae eats them or am i way off the mark?

 

[NiCd]

That is an extraordinary spike in a single day!

 

[Scottrotton]

I know, nothings dead, counted everysingle snail and crab, all my corals seem normal, only thing that gave it away was this bright green algae, even did a retest.

ive added more macro algae now. hopefully it will burn itself out

 

[macca_75]

Maybe double check your result and even your kit.

Your tank is also really immature. Do a 30% WC, leave it for a day and retest.

Just take things slow...

 

[MagicJ]

What exactly is 'Prime' meant to do for your nitrates?? The best I can find is a reference to "Prime enhances nitrate removal".

Not exactly a convincing argument for using it in your situation.