Reef Discussion

allira

Member
Jan 7, 2012
30
3
Lennox Head
noobie overload - setting up 4ft reef
In the next few months I'm planning on upgrading my little 30L all in one, to a 4ft reef set up.
[I already have the tank and stand];)
I've been researching a fair bit on reef tanks and what and what-not to get, but it's really overwhelming when you look at everything on a broad spectrum. I'm not too sure if it's too much to ask, but could anyone give me some hints on the basics of what is really necessary in terms of equipment?
Sumps, skimmers, filters, power heads, types of lighting etc.

Some information which might help:
I don't make my salt water, I take it from the ocean because I think that's the healthiest and best way to go about it.
I don't use any additives because my coral and fish are perfectly fine without it and are growing and well.
I have some crappy all-in-1 tank which has a sump style filter in the back of it, and i also have no idea what kind of light is in it - but it must be decent because nothing has died....yet (touch wood).
In my 4ft reef, I'm not planning on keeping any super difficult corals, I just want to keep it nice and clean and simple, but obviously so it looks nice. I know which fish are compatible with corals and all that, my only issue is the equipment.

So basically in summary, I'm just curious as to what equipment is really necessary when starting off the tank with only basic corals and live rock. And also, what brands/types of equipment that aren't too harsh on the pocket?
I've been looking at the Marisys 2, but have read mixed reviews...any opinions?
Thank you in advanced, any advice is great advice! :worship:D
 

MTG

Moderator
Jul 10, 2011
10,664
2,149
Gold Coast
Hi Allira :welcome
firstly are you considering another all in one system or do you want to go custom?
if you take the all in one route you cant beat the red sea max 250.
customs a whole different story. whats your budget?
 

Sarg

Member
Dec 11, 2011
2,559
926
Cheltenham
:welcome

The Marisys might be a bit to small at 240ltrs tank volume if your going 4 foot.

i'm setting up a 4 footer atm and going with a sump and my equipment list to get me started is skimmer, return pump,wave/circulation pumps,led lights and chiller. That will be fine to get the tank wet and running. Down the track you may want dosing pumps or a phosphate tube etc.

Good luck. Dont be afraid to take your time and read though your already running a tank so your 3/4's of the way there!! ;)

Flick through some of these and see what others are doing that is what I do...

http://www.thereefuge.com/board/threads/l00nys-4x2x2.609/unread

http://www.thereefuge.com/board/threads/sidds-4-2-2-3-years-old-totq-winner-q1-2012.507/

http://www.thereefuge.com/board/threads/reefmaniac-4x2x2-reef.1052/unread

and if you want to get real techie..

http://www.thereefuge.com/board/threads/magicjs-4x2x2-reef.66/
 

VaultBoy

Member
Jul 10, 2011
2,279
673
Gawler, S.A.
I would start with skimmer (best you can afford), circulation/wave pump, lighting (do your research here LED is king but expensive to start out), heater, live rock, substrate and water. If you are planning on using a sump then you will need to work out your plumbing and over flow arrangement. You willl need to either drilll the tank (if not done already) or build/buy a constant syphon overflow system. Here is the overflow I use and would recommend it to anyone.

Good luck with the setup and dont hesitate to ask any questions.
 

Joshwaaaa

Member
Jul 22, 2011
1,326
634
Skimmer = bubble magus if you are on a budget, you will find quite a few happy customers about the place
 

allira

Member
Jan 7, 2012
30
3
Lennox Head
Hi Allira :welcome
firstly are you considering another all in one system or do you want to go custom?
if you take the all in one route you cant beat the red sea max 250.
customs a whole different story. whats your budget?
I am 90% sure that I want to go custom because it seems as though it's the most recommended and safe in terms of stability and reliability, however the red sea max looks pretty decent. Considering I'm still at school and only earn about $150-$200 a week, I have to work around that, I don't really have a limit but I know it's going to be a slowly progressing thing to do.
Thanks!
 

allira

Member
Jan 7, 2012
30
3
Lennox Head
.... :confused:Come on now guys.

I would start with skimmer (best you can afford), circulation/wave pump, lighting (do your research here LED is king but expensive to start out), heater, live rock, substrate and water. If you are planning on using a sump then you will need to work out your plumbing and over flow arrangement. You willl need to either drilll the tank (if not done already) or build/buy a constant syphon overflow system. Here is the overflow I use and would recommend it to anyone.

Good luck with the setup and dont hesitate to ask any questions.
Thanks heaps! I have a bit of live rock so far but before I change my tanks over I'm going to invest to get the bacterial state going, along with the substrate and ocean water.
If I have a sump and a skimmer, will that be enough with maybe just one powerhead to start off?(equipment wise). The Overflow system you showed me looks great and actually helped a lot with understand how it all works.
Thank you so much!
 

mscott

Member
Jan 2, 2012
1,416
271
Wheelers Hill
Look at second hand, its what i did, and my tank is running without hassles, all i need is to upgrade my wavemakers eventually, atm i have cheepie ebay ones, they are doing a great job for like 10 buks each, but are slowly dieing, thats the price for cheep.
Also look at DIY LED's if you think you are a little handy, there are a tone of people who will help you out there. I think Bridgelux LED's from aquastyles are the cheapest??
 

allira

Member
Jan 7, 2012
30
3
Lennox Head
What skimmer do you have now?
I don't have a skimmer at the moment as my tank has an all in one and I just use small carbon pouches, change them every couple of months.

I've been looking at getting the Aqua One skimmer, (http://www.aquaone.co.uk/marine_skimmers.php) but I don't really know if they're decent enough, they seem to be a good price and Aqua One products seem to be the only type around my area.
 

allira

Member
Jan 7, 2012
30
3
Lennox Head
So I've had a look around and these three options seem to be my best choices:

Octopus Grow Marine LED 90W light
Aqua One G216 Protein Skimmer - hopefully placed in my sump *idea mainly stolen from MagicJ's set up*
And 2x Eheim Compact 1000 power heads for my water flow.

As to the sump arrangement, I'm thinking to do it custom so it suits my set up and I can understand each part of it. I've got a few ideas which I've looked at sketches of so that should be sweet.
Thanks for everyones help but I was just wondering perhaps I could get some feedback on those 3 products? Perhaps if anyone has used them before or knows of how reliable and efficient they are?
 

MTG

Moderator
Jul 10, 2011
10,664
2,149
Gold Coast
So I've had a look around and these three options seem to be my best choices:

Octopus Grow Marine LED 90W light
Aqua One G216 Protein Skimmer - hopefully placed in my sump *idea mainly stolen from MagicJ's set up*
And 2x Eheim Compact 1000 power heads for my water flow.

As to the sump arrangement, I'm thinking to do it custom so it suits my set up and I can understand each part of it. I've got a few ideas which I've looked at sketches of so that should be sweet.
Thanks for everyones help but I was just wondering perhaps I could get some feedback on those 3 products? Perhaps if anyone has used them before or knows of how reliable and efficient they are?
In my opinion.
octopus light, Hell No,
Aqua one skimmer Hell no,
eheim pump, Hell Yes! , whats your budget? much better performing things to choose from then what you have picked
 

MagicJ

Moderator
Jul 11, 2011
9,650
3,761
Hobart, Tasmania
I am a bit confused - you originally said that you had a tank and stand and then you were talking about getting an all-in-one.

Do you already have the tank, and if so what size is it? If not, what size tank are you planning to get?

This will determine what lights, skimmer and return pump will be appropriate.

Cheers
 

VaultBoy

Member
Jul 10, 2011
2,279
673
Gawler, S.A.
In the next few months I'm planning on upgrading my little 30L all in one, to a 4ft reef set up.
[I already have the tank and stand]
I think the 30L all in one is getting upgraded to a 4ft (which she already has)


If I have a sump and a skimmer, will that be enough with maybe just one powerhead to start off?(equipment wise). The Overflow system you showed me looks great and actually helped a lot with understand how it all works.
Thank you so much!
I'm glad I could help you out somewhat.

As part of having a sump you will need to have overflow (from tank to sump) and return (from sump to tank) plumbing and a return pump rated to about 5 times the system volume per hour at the required head height. Also you will need a pump to run your skimmer (This will normally be included but it pays to check, especially if youre buying a "bargain" from the net). As far as water flow in the tank goes there is not much more important than this and it will depend on what you want to keep. As a very general rule you should be looking at around 20 - 30 times total volume turnover in your tank every hour for soft corals and 50 - 60 times for hard corals. If you just plan on keeping fish to start with you can get away with less but you want enough flow that food and debris dont settle in all the nooks and crannies and foul the water.

When I started my tank I had plans to start with cheap equipment and upgrade as I needed it and while it has worked, in as much as I have a decent looking tank with some nice fish, I have a crappy skimmer that I need to upgrade, I can barely keep coral in the tank because I bought shit cheap second hand metal halide lights. Now I am at a point where I need to start spending serious money to make the tank what I really want after spending a money to get where I am now.... I wish I started off with better equipment! So, if you can, you should be thinking long term with your equipment purchases.

I would start with working out your plumbing arrangement (syphon or drilled tank) and then your sump design (as simple as possible 2 or 3 chamber) and your return pump/plumbing. With that and your substrate and live rock you can get the tank wet and start the cycle. Then you need lighting, skimmer and circulation before you add any livestock. Ideally you will have these all to start with but if you need to you can live with out them for a while.

Stick to Bubble magus for a cheaper skimmer solution (I have heard mixed reports about the aquaone skimmers) and DIY LED is the go for a cheaper lighting solution. If you decide to go for cheap wave makers you will need to over-compensate to make up for their very generous flow ratings.

Most importantly ask heaps of questions before you rush out and buy on impulse. There are a lot of helpful people on here and if you do your research we can help save you a lot of money/heartache in the future!

Good luck.
 
V

'vspec'

Guest
If this is the first forage into marine, I would personally recommend any newbie keeping it on a simple approach for at least 6months. ( I'd say a year, but I doubt anyone would even consider it )

Buckle yourself in, cause your about to see into the mind of a mental patent [Broken External Image]:http://forum.mmopurge.com/images/smilies/skeptic.gif

------------------------------------------------------------
The Pillars
The approach is covered by 3 corner stone principles
  • Focus on your knowledge base
  • Focus on your actual tank setup (minus all the bells and whistles)
  • Focus on your routine and curve your impulses
.
By simple approach, I suggest you keep fish only with live rock (FOWLR) and start to understand the basics. This is not boring, exact opposite actually, as your limits are increased 10 fold!! What better way to learn, and have direct interaction simultaneously
.
The Principles.

#1
Marine understanding is like podium steps, if you fail to understand the level your on, you can step up prematurely, but you risk a total collapse of every level. This is not to scare you! - as marine tanks are a wonderful learning curve; they teach you just as much about yourself as they do the animals you keep. I personally and mentally label it with "a level of respect" tag, ~ very akin to playing with sharp knives, as soon as you loose focus, it can make you pay!

#2
Entering the hobby, It is very, very easy to get bogged down. Information overload hitting from every angle. Add to that the opinions on top, and Its a BS sea of uncertainly. So forget that sh^t!,......... focusing on a level is your saving grace.

One word I want you to sear into your memory banks. Why?

This one word will make you a pro in record time. Give it the level of respect it deserves!.
Understanding the "Why" behind any topic, any principle, any additive, any product, any opinion, even your own choices, ect ect, will serve you 110%.
Once you understand the WHY, you start to Interchange with HOW, and vise versa.
Believe me ~ This is your get out of jail free card. I can not stress this point enough.


#3
Cause and Effect .vs. Process of Elimination.

Everything falls under ether one of these headings. You can bet your bottom dollar, that its both.

Process of Elimination is 2 fold that expands like a bubble, but its a simple concept.
Part A) is like the "choose your own adventure" books. You chose a path, you need a direction, when you hit the crossroads, you make a logical choice.
You will be surprised, Every choice is pretty easy when you think of it in these terms. Once you commit to understand the podium level your on, & because you focused on understanding the "Why" - which showed you the "How", you unwittingly discovered Cause and Effect.

With Cause and Effect, your eliminating everything that does not feel right, or is not logical. See ~ Simple!
This gives you a handful of choices max, where as before you had a sea.

Part B of process of elimination is a focus of environmental specifics. Indicators are everywhere. Once you advance, you will instinctually see them to explain or advert potential issues.

------------------------------------------------

This is where it starts, and is the best advise I could ever hope to pass on to people starting out in this field.
Use the forum as your bouncing board. Forums (in a perfect world) keep information and best practises honest, so use that strength.
If you find a knowledgeable and friendly community (such as this) your already one step in the winning direction.
Never take LFS advice as gospel, and question everything. Flog that "Why Topic" to death.

Look forward to your topics for discussion, and welcome The Reefuge!
 

allira

Member
Jan 7, 2012
30
3
Lennox Head
In my opinion.
octopus light, Hell No,
Aqua one skimmer Hell no,
eheim pump, Hell Yes! , whats your budget? much better performing things to choose from then what you have picked
HAHA okay, well that helps. My budget is probably $700 maximum, and I know that really limits me. :(
 

allira

Member
Jan 7, 2012
30
3
Lennox Head
I am a bit confused - you originally said that you had a tank and stand and then you were talking about getting an all-in-one.

Do you already have the tank, and if so what size is it? If not, what size tank are you planning to get?

This will determine what lights, skimmer and return pump will be appropriate.

Cheers
I currently have a salt water all-in-one tank. And I'm going to upgrade it to my 4ft tank. I have freshwater tropicals at the moment in it but I'm downsizing that one. Hence, putting my saltwater set up into my 4ft. :D Hope this helps.
 

allira

Member
Jan 7, 2012
30
3
Lennox Head
Thank you so much vspec! I honestly cannot explain how thankful I am, it has really started to put things into perspective!
I will get back to you when I've had a good hard think about all you have said.