Reef Discussion

[Agent M]

Unfortunately when people neglect animals they will wait until its almost too late before they will give them up, I've seen it many times. They are often animal lovers and its not that they don't care, its that they are not coping emotionally in their life and have put their feelings in front of the welfare of the animal - whether it be because they feel attached to it or are wanting to avoid having to deal with disapproval.

It's better to leave the door open to them to approach you should they have an animal that needs help (if you want to provide that outlet) and to be kind - tell them the truth but stick to the positive - "its good that you helped the fish by passing it on to me".

You don't need to have sympathy for that person or suppress your anger at seeing cruelty (that's not healthy) or have them on your Facebook though :)

I call it a 'hostage situation' and have dealt with it many times, including people calling my mobile with their number blocked to ask for advice because they think someone is going to come and take the animal by force. Despite how defensive they are, I've had 100% success in the person contacting me again later to give up the animal - it wasn't anything special that I did, they wanted to be relieved of the burden of care all along and they organised it for themselves, they just needed to find someone who would smooth the way.

You obviously did that as you now have the fish :)

It's been tough so far with the Scooters as they are so small and need the food to move the right way to trigger a feeding response, I've been scraping by but today I got some Hikari Frozen Bloodworms and they went ape for it, even getting it out of the water column - really good product!

Its clean, doesn't smell and the worms have been gut loaded with vitamins and some other goodies. Its really soft as well so the dragonettes can easily break it down to the right size they need.

I would say live brine isn't enough nutritionally, but if its working don't stop! ;)

 

[Felicity goodall]

Unfortunately when people neglect animals they will wait until its almost too late before they will give them up, I've seen it many times. They are often animal lovers and its not that they don't care, its that they are not coping emotionally in their life and have put their feelings in front of the welfare of the animal - whether it be because they feel attached to it or are wanting to avoid having to deal with disapproval.

It's better to leave the door open to them to approach you should they have an animal that needs help (if you want to provide that outlet) and to be kind - tell them the truth but stick to the positive - "its good that you helped the fish by passing it on to me".

You don't need to have sympathy for that person or suppress your anger at seeing cruelty (that's not healthy) or have them on your Facebook though :)

I call it a 'hostage situation' and have dealt with it many times, including people calling my mobile with their number blocked to ask for advice because they think someone is going to come and take the animal by force. Despite how defensive they are, I've had 100% success in the person contacting me again later to give up the animal - it wasn't anything special that I did, they wanted to be relieved of the burden of care all along and they organised it for themselves, they just needed to find someone who would smooth the way.

You obviously did that as you now have the fish :)

It's been tough so far with the Scooters as they are so small and need the food to move the right way to trigger a feeding response, I've been scraping by but today I got some Hikari Frozen Bloodworms and they went ape for it, even getting it out of the water column - really good product!

Its clean, doesn't smell and the worms have been gut loaded with vitamins and some other goodies. Its really soft as well so the dragonettes can easily break it down to the right size they need.

I would say live brine isn't enough nutritionally, but if its working don't stop! ;)

Darn I was just at the LFS. I will pick up some of that food tomorrow since the shop is only 500m away.

Thanks for the help
Post some pics of your little guys too we can be a thin fish support group. Lol

 

[holly]

Darn I was just at the LFS. I will pick up some of that food tomorrow since the shop is only 500m away.

Thanks for the help
Post some pics of your little guys too we can be a thin fish support group. Lol

It would be a great thread or micro group to start- subtopics organised by fish and some stickies General tips? Would make the info easier to get so people can make an informed choice about persisting

 

[Agent M]

Post some pics of your little guys too we can be a thin fish support group. Lol

There's a reason I don't post vids/photos very often, I blame the user not the technology :confused: At least you get an idea of scale!

Skinny fish group sounds good :)

 

[Felicity goodall]

So little. I could hardly see it. I only saw one. Did you have two?

 

[Agent M]

They froze when I pointed the tablet at them. They are both in frame - one is to the right of the shell and doesn't move from that spot, the other below the shell.

 

[Felicity goodall]

Unfortunately when people neglect animals they will wait until its almost too late before they will give them up, I've seen it many times. They are often animal lovers and its not that they don't care, its that they are not coping emotionally in their life and have put their feelings in front of the welfare of the animal - whether it be because they feel attached to it or are wanting to avoid having to deal with disapproval.

It's better to leave the door open to them to approach you should they have an animal that needs help (if you want to provide that outlet) and to be kind - tell them the truth but stick to the positive - "its good that you helped the fish by passing it on to me".

You don't need to have sympathy for that person or suppress your anger at seeing cruelty (that's not healthy) or have them on your Facebook though :)

I call it a 'hostage situation' and have dealt with it many times, including people calling my mobile with their number blocked to ask for advice because they think someone is going to come and take the animal by force. Despite how defensive they are, I've had 100% success in the person contacting me again later to give up the animal - it wasn't anything special that I did, they wanted to be relieved of the burden of care all along and they organised it for themselves, they just needed to find someone who would smooth the way.

You obviously did that as you now have the fish :)

It's been tough so far with the Scooters as they are so small and need the food to move the right way to trigger a feeding response, I've been scraping by but today I got some Hikari Frozen Bloodworms and they went ape for it, even getting it out of the water column - really good product!

Its clean, doesn't smell and the worms have been gut loaded with vitamins and some other goodies. Its really soft as well so the dragonettes can easily break it down to the right size they need.

I would say live brine isn't enough nutritionally, but if its working don't stop! ;)

YOUR MY HERO!!
Bought the blood worms and she took a little while to start but she is eating. I picked up some live ones as well but she has eaten at least six frozen while I have been watching so very happy.

Thank for everyone's comments and help

 

[Agent M]

That's great! 6 bloodworms is a big meal - and she didn't have to use much energy up to get it. Perfect :)

 

[Felicity goodall]

That's great! 6 bloodworms is a big meal - and she didn't have to use much energy up to get it. Perfect :)

I thought I spoke too soon. She now stopped. Might be full

 

[Agent M]

Yeah I wouldn't worry, that's like us eating a 1kg steak or something :p

If she eats that sort of amount 3 times a day, you're laughing

 

[Felicity goodall]

Yeah I wouldn't worry, that's like us eating a 1kg steak or something :p

If she eats that sort of amount 3 times a day, you're laughing

This fish is hard work but rewarding.

 

[Agent M]

This fish is hard work but rewarding.

You've jumped right in the deep end that's for sure! If they are in good health, they are not difficult but you have to monitor them really closely and be so friggin consistent with the feeding every single day. I ended up rehoming my mandarins as they were more work than the seahorses. Such a stunning fish though.

 

[Felicity goodall]

You've jumped right in the deep end that's for sure! If they are in good health, they are not difficult but you have to monitor them really closely and be so friggin consistent with the feeding every single day. I ended up rehoming my mandarins as they were more work than the seahorses. Such a stunning fish though.

My boy that I got from the same guy was fine. Really healthy. This is a struggle

 

[Felicity goodall]

Today's pics. Besides comments on my dirty sump what do you think from the first pics I posted

 

[Lesley]

D

So great to see. Thanks for the photo they are so cute.

I have posted some pics now of the little lady. She is named shambles ( named by my partner) She has filled out a little. You can see the tail but it is still torn. The fish was not fattened in a day.

Doing a good job there @Felicity goodall keep it up and she should come good. xoxox

 

[Agent M]

Eye sockets beginning to fill out - tail looking good!

 

[Agent M]

Since Mon this is the process I've had to go through to get the Scooters where they are at now:

Day 1 - they spent the afternoon curiously looking at food floating around the tank. They needed time to figure out what it was and how to get it. Lots of uneaten food going in the filter.

Day 2 - flooded the tank with food 5 times over the course of the day in order for them to catch the occasional small mouthful. What they were eating was barely enough to get them by so water quality be hanged. It was taking about 20 mins per feeding

Day 3 - starting to recognise me as the source of this food - after not being home all day they greeted me at the glass very excited. Offered them Hikari Bloodworms, pump turned off and they stuffed themselves with it. Had to flood the water with food for them to get the amount they needed.

Occasionally restarted the pump to get it to swirl around whenever they started to lose interest, and they would take chase and eat more.

Day 4 - fed them 3 times over the day with blood worms, they seemed to have it figured out so less food could be added - I found that introducing a fine plankitvore food for the Chromis first and then feeding the scooters a few mins later sped up the feeding time to about 5 mins instead of 20.

By night time they were sick of bloodworms so offered some frozen Hikari brine shrimp with a pipette for their last meal and it was well received. This was a significant step as it means I could start to target feed. Massive water change and cleaned the filter.

Day 5 (today) - mixed bloodworms and brine in a glass with some tank water and fed with the pipette - they are now getting really ballsy & taking it straight out of the pipette. Yes!



So that's the hardest part over. All of this would have been easier if I'd been able to start with live black worms but I couldn't find any in time.

Its worth noting there are zero pods in the tank as its a QT tank. I find trying to add pods counterproductive unless you can provide enough of them for a few decent meals, it just delays them looking at the frozen foods as something they want. When they are on the brink of starvation there is no time for that.

The general guide for how to handle starvation in any animal that I have learned is:

- give them as much food as they want, they may eat large amounts for a while to catch up so don't ration

- you want them to be eating 10-20% of their body weight in food - preferably the 20% mark. I don't know how to translate that to a fish, it would not be difficult to weigh them (in water I mean - in case anyone misinterprets that!) but I don't think its necessary. I look at 10-20% of their body mass and if they eat the equivalent amount in food per day I consider that excellent progress. Its a rough guide but it works just fine.

- don't be surprised if the animal has been doing really well and you find it inexplicably dead one day - chances are the starvation was so advanced it affected key body organs irreversibly, rather than anything being lacking in your care.

Probably only other thing of note is that different fish will gain weight at different rates according to their metabolism - its been 5 days and the engineer goby that's in the tank with the scooters is stacking on weight from all the extra food, whereas the dragonettes don't look any different other than more colour and energy. You should see visible weight gain by 2 weeks though, otherwise things are not going well.

Did you guys go through something similar to the above in getting your mandarins eating or did you have a different experience?

 

[Wrangy]

Awesome to see her making improvements Felicity :D

 

[Felicity goodall]

So I just jinxed myself.

Today I Had to
Leave at 6am for golf so
Didn't feed in the morning. Get home till 2.30pm and want to feed her. All the bulge in her belly she had is now gone.
I have like blood worms and she does not touch them, tried the frozen, didn't eat.
Put in live brine shrimp and she at them.
So as I don't have many left I thought I would just try mysisd and lobster eggs. That got her a little excited but still looking thin.

This is one annoying fish. But I love her

 

[Agent M]

Might be time for a water change - it may stimulate her appetite again. Apart from keeping water quality up, it mimics what can happen on the reef where water is drawn out and then floods back in bringing food with it. I watched this happening with some dragonettes in Port Phillip Bay, the water would draw out, then surge in, going cloudy, then clear and they would have a big feed right after