Tank Journal Archive

ViralEntity

Member
Feb 13, 2013
148
81
Warragul
The Reboot - Aka The Cleanup
Ok for those that haven't read my first Journal entry, my tank is in a bad place. But pictures speak a 1000's words so here we go, unedited, in all it's glory. The lights are off as I can't seem to get a shot that shows the full extent of the RHA growth under the LED's.

Before Christmas:
20140413_104449253_iOS.jpg


Now:
IMG_0064.JPG


So tonight began the cleanup with step one to bring the parameters under control. I borrowed 20L of salt water off friend to perform a last minute water change before I get down to Reeflections this weekend. I pruned back a bit more RHA, blasted off the rock work and siphoned out another 25% of the sand. If I can scab another drum off him in the morning I will attempt to remove the last chunk of sand ready for the new larger sized sand.

The Tunze 9002 is slowly started to break in and produce some decent skimmate but I need to topoff twice a day to keep the water level right for it. Water parameters after a 20L change:
SG: 1.026
Nitrate: 6.1 ppm
Phosphates: 1.6 ppm

Yeah not my finest moment...:cry

So from here, I will try and change around 50% a week until the nitrates drop to <2ppm and the phosphates <1 ppm. I am short a few snails but I don't want to be putting any more livestock into the tank as I reckon the change from shop water to mine would be drastic even if drip acclimated.

gtrxu1 mentioned an Algae Mower Vac as a solution for removing the RHA and it doesn't sound like a bad investment at all, especially since it is probably a better idea than buying Urchins/snails specifically for a problem. That said, Urchins have also been mentioned as a solution for shorter RHA and as a way of stopping it from regrowing, so I am of two minds as to whether to go down this path in place of a couple snails.

I will keep this Journal up to date with results over the duration of the tidy up, but feel free to comment and offer suggestions. I will try and be honest no matter how bad it looks :p
 

ViralEntity

Member
Feb 13, 2013
148
81
Warragul
Ok this has already gotten the best of me. I am looking into a Algae Turf Scrubber, a HOG.5 from here or maybe larger. The key thing that has me interested is that until I sump the tank, I can run one of these in the rear middle COD on the back glass. Now thinking about this further, the glass is tinted... so it may be a DT scrubber for a short while :dead
 

Aspidites

Member
Dec 1, 2012
600
209
South lake
Turbo snails eat all algae and are great in any cuc. Watch out for the algae drifting when you clean it if done in your display tank. It will get everywhere as all you need is one strand to hit another rock to get another bit started. The holdfasts are incredibly dificult to remove.
 

Rob

Member
Apr 26, 2012
743
424
Man that seemed to happen fast, when was the "Before Christmas" shot taken.... Cant believe it can turn soo quickly i.e. a couple of weeks..
 

ViralEntity

Member
Feb 13, 2013
148
81
Warragul
Man that seemed to happen fast, when was the "Before Christmas" shot taken.... Cant believe it can turn soo quickly i.e. a couple of weeks..
It's not as bad it is sounds - more like 2 and a bit months - I believe I took the shot just before the LED's went in so would be early to mid Nov. I spent most of the day working through the tank and it seems that my cleaning hasn't been up to scratch as the rock layout (you see what i mean in the FTS below) has a lot of pockets that have a crazy amount of gunk caught in them. I also don't regularly test the water, something I am going to have to get into the habit of doing. It is looking like this has most likely been building for a good year or more.
IMG_0065[1].JPG


I guess its actually not all that bad, other than the Zoa's losing a bit of colour it doesn't look like a lost cause. A bit of elbow grease will go a long way I reckon, most of the sand is now gone and if I can get the gun out of the rocks the parameters should start to go back to normal.
 

ViralEntity

Member
Feb 13, 2013
148
81
Warragul
So I bit the bullet and order a Algae Mower Vac after attempting to remove this mess by hand. For every piece I got rid of another breaks loose and will no doubt get lodged somewhere. It should be here shortly and I am really looking forward to reducing the mess.



On a more negative note, removing more sand has had a negative impact on the parameter - both the nitrates and phosphates are climbing. I have gotten a quote on a ATS, and although it is pricey, I believe it will be cheaper to run long term than a couple of reactors with GFO and biopellets, not to mention a bit less maintenance.
 

Agent M

Member
Oct 21, 2011
3,536
1,586
Melbourne
Its quite pretty in comparison to green hair algae, not that its any consolation!

I've read all of your journal entries about this tank, including the archived one, so if you'll trust me, I can steer you in the right direction to achieving what you've said you want with the tank. I see two main areas to the problems you are having - dealing with the algae itself, and setting up the tank so that it is operating correctly in future.

As far as dealing with the algae - I would use a product to weaken it, loosen it and even kill some of it to help you with removal when your algae vac arrives and to make it more palatable to your snails. The cheapest and most readily available option is Hydrogen peroxide. You can buy this in the first aid section of Coles or Safeway for just under $5. Get a 1 or 2ml syringe from the chemist - they may look at you suspiciously and glance at the veins in your arms, but its worth it for the love of your hobby!

Using 1 or 2 ml at a time, apply the Hydrogen peroxide directly to the algae sparingly. For a few seconds, the Hydrogen peroxide will burn whatever it comes in contact with before it converts to harmless oxygen - so do not squirt directly on to fish or snails if they get in the way. You can however dip corals in a diluted solution of it so they will be less affected by direct contact with it.

If you are worried about using it in the tank for the first time, do a test patch so you can see how it works by removing the most affected rock and putting a few drops on a small section of the affected area, then replace it back in the tank and watch what happens in the next 2-3days. There is a large thread on this on Reef Central by brandon429. You can also see his tanks on Youtube. He uses a 35% Hydrogen peroxide solution on his tiny vase pico, which last time I checked was at the 8 year mark. The Hydrogen peroxide I am suggesting is only 3%. Oceanarium also uses this method on their frag stock and frag racks for maintenance. And I use it now as well. I notice the corals extend better afterwards too.

Another option is to use a product called Phosphate RX. This will deal with your phosphate levels and weaken the algae at the same time. It will bind the phosphate and allow the skimmer or your vacuuming during a water change to remove it from the tank. It will not solve the phosphate problems long term, but it will bring them back to zero and allow you to concentrate on the most important thing - which is changing the setup of your tank so that it is a fully functioning reef again.


I really feel that the widespread attitude in this hobby to ride problems out or solve them gradually is now very much old thinking, and we have new tools available to us that take the stress out of it considerably.

Whether you choose to use a product to help or not - when you see your turbo snails out on the glass at night, pick them off and place them directly on the algae rocks so they can do their work where they are most needed. That's a tip from melevsreef (I love that guy).

A tip from me is that after you have done your algae treatments, and removed as much algae as possible with the vac - turn the rock over so that the algae is facing away from the light.
 

Agent M

Member
Oct 21, 2011
3,536
1,586
Melbourne
As far as setting up the tank so that it is more self-sustaining - what you have currently is mechanical filtration in the form of skimming removing a certain percentage of dissolved organics from the water, and biological filtration in the form of sand and live rock that has become a detritus trap. This is what happened to me but over a much longer period.

Live rock and sand requires regular maintenance to remove wastes, and most tanks don't get that because we are taught to leave it undisturbed or its too fine to vacuum, and the live rock is set up in such a way that its a pain to move around each time a water change is done. What also happens is that there is a draw down effect under the rocks due to flow being slower in these areas, where detritus accumulates unseen. Problem is, you can have a nice looking tank for years before you start to have inexplicable nutrient issues and not realise where you went wrong in the beginning. Most people turn to new equipment for a solution instead of giving the tank a really good clean out and changing their maintenance routine.

I would reduce the amount of live rock in the system to make room for long term coral growth, but this is up to you depending on your preference for how it looks and your willingness to keep that amount of rock clean. What you choose to keep I would putty it together or connect it with acrylic rods into a few manageable pieces that are easy to lift from the aquarium for rinsing. Once a month, wipe down all of the glass panels, lift out all of your rock, give the substrate a good vacuuming (1-2mm minimum is good for this - and will host the bigger fauna like amphipods, brittle stars, chitons). Give the live rock/corals a swish in the waste water and replace it all back into position. Give all equipment a wipeover and clean out the filtration compartment in the back of the tank.

Change as much water as you can - minimum 20%, up to 90%.

You may find that changing the substrate and a new maintenance schedule may be all you need to get the tank back on track - but I personally would use more efficient biofiltration and not rely on the live rock and sand alone. If you still have the 30L sump, you could consider Miracle Mud, which slowly releases trace elements in to the water, so no dosing required except maybe calcium.

Marine Pure is an excellent product - a 4x8 inch block is rated for a 300L aquarium so that would be very effective on your tank. It can be cut to fit the back section or place in the sump, or you could use the spheres. Whatever you choose, make it so that it is as simple as lifting it out in one go whenever you want to give it a rinse or siphon detritus.

There are so many other equipment options to consider, the list is kind of endless: nitrate reactors, phosphate reactors etc., algae turf scrubbers, carbon dosing, remote DSB etc etc. Not to mention carbon or products like Phosban being used passively in the filtration compartment, filter pads etc. All you can do is research and see what suits what you want to keep and makes things easiest for you to maintain.
 

ViralEntity

Member
Feb 13, 2013
148
81
Warragul
Thanks heaps for taking the time to reply with such detail. You have hit the nail on the head - as much as I set out with clear objective, real life and an attraction to shiny things has meant that I have drifted from my original goals.

The purpose of this restart was to turn the tank into a long term system not a fad. For that reason I am attempting to approach any changes that need to be as long term solutions not quick fixes. So this is my plan at the moment:

1. Increase water changes to 60L a week up from 20L short term. The only restriction here is the distance required to collect more water - unless there is an option close to the Warragul area that someone knows of?

2. Reduce photoperoid form 12hrs to 8hrs short term. I need to look at the intensity as well as the new LED's can burn crop circles if allowed.:eek

3. Remove as much RHA as I can physically using the AMV. I will read up a bit more on H2O2 and using it effectively as it sounds like this is benficial.

4. As for the rocks, they are glued into their current shapes very firmly and as a result they are impractical to remove from the tank. Plus they dont actually fit out the top without removing the lid completely. This is a design flaw that I never intended when I started, and so is the sheer number of pockets that debris can collect in. Short term, I will have to vacuum blow down the rocks daily, longer term I will look at redirecting the MP10 flow and add blowing down the rocks to my daily maintenace.

5. Finish removing the last of the fine grain sand. I may leave a thin layer on the bottom of the tank beneath the new sand, but I am unsure if this is wise. Once the sand is replaced I will increase the MP10 flow, most likely in a wave mode rather than constant as I had it, and try and keep any waste suspended in the water column. I need to investigate the flow rates others with RSM's have been using. :reading

6. Decide on a nutrient export system. I have been looking at various solutions people have used with success and the 4 main ones seem to be Zeovit, Carbon Dosing, macro algae refugiums and ATS's. Zeovit is too intensive and unforgiving and experience has shown I will not be able to adhere to the regime required. Carbon dosing is a tough one, with Biopellets seeming the best low maintenance option. The equipment is fairly cheap, 2x reactors so that GFo can be run along side, would set me back about $150 on a tank this size. My main concern has been peoples comments on not being able to control the rate at which they export and that they are relatively new to the scene. Plently of success stories however, but is that enough to balance the ongoing pellet costs? I dont have enough space for the refugium as any sump I setup will be small enough as it is, so I dont consider this an option. Lastly, something I have only recently looked into based on a recommendation, is a Algae Turf Scrubber. I am not interested in DIY, so it leaves only a couple of neat options, including the HOG options. They aren't cheap for a light and a box, however the low maintenance and principle appeals to me. For the time being they can also be mounted on the DT until it is relocated into the sump.

Hopefully by this stage the tank will be back on track and ready for the sump and new skimmer. Then I will be looking at more livestock and then the tools needed to maintain them (CA, Kalk, Mg etc)
 

holly

Member
Jul 10, 2013
1,806
832
Melbourne
Thanks heaps for taking the time to reply with such detail. You have hit the nail on the head - as much as I set out with clear objective, real life and an attraction to shiny things has meant that I have drifted from my original goals.

The purpose of this restart was to turn the tank into a long term system not a fad. For that reason I am attempting to approach any changes that need to be as long term solutions not quick fixes. So this is my plan at the moment:

1. Increase water changes to 60L a week up from 20L short term. The only restriction here is the distance required to collect more water - unless there is an option close to the Warragul area that someone knows of?

2. Reduce photoperoid form 12hrs to 8hrs short term. I need to look at the intensity as well as the new LED's can burn crop circles if allowed.:eek

3. Remove as much RHA as I can physically using the AMV. I will read up a bit more on H2O2 and using it effectively as it sounds like this is benficial.

4. As for the rocks, they are glued into their current shapes very firmly and as a result they are impractical to remove from the tank. Plus they dont actually fit out the top without removing the lid completely. This is a design flaw that I never intended when I started, and so is the sheer number of pockets that debris can collect in. Short term, I will have to vacuum blow down the rocks daily, longer term I will look at redirecting the MP10 flow and add blowing down the rocks to my daily maintenace.

5. Finish removing the last of the fine grain sand. I may leave a thin layer on the bottom of the tank beneath the new sand, but I am unsure if this is wise. Once the sand is replaced I will increase the MP10 flow, most likely in a wave mode rather than constant as I had it, and try and keep any waste suspended in the water column. I need to investigate the flow rates others with RSM's have been using. :reading

6. Decide on a nutrient export system. I have been looking at various solutions people have used with success and the 4 main ones seem to be Zeovit, Carbon Dosing, macro algae refugiums and ATS's. Zeovit is too intensive and unforgiving and experience has shown I will not be able to adhere to the regime required. Carbon dosing is a tough one, with Biopellets seeming the best low maintenance option. The equipment is fairly cheap, 2x reactors so that GFo can be run along side, would set me back about $150 on a tank this size. My main concern has been peoples comments on not being able to control the rate at which they export and that they are relatively new to the scene. Plently of success stories however, but is that enough to balance the ongoing pellet costs? I dont have enough space for the refugium as any sump I setup will be small enough as it is, so I dont consider this an option. Lastly, something I have only recently looked into based on a recommendation, is a Algae Turf Scrubber. I am not interested in DIY, so it leaves only a couple of neat options, including the HOG options. They aren't cheap for a light and a box, however the low maintenance and principle appeals to me. For the time being they can also be mounted on the DT until it is relocated into the sump.

Hopefully by this stage the tank will be back on track and ready for the sump and new skimmer. Then I will be looking at more livestock and then the tools needed to maintain them (CA, Kalk, Mg etc)
@Fragalicious would be able to advise on the algae scrubbers. As for biopellets best thing to get is a recirculating reactor so you can control how quickly they reduce your organic load. I've had problems with green hair algae in the past and it does die back if in darkness (turn the rock over as @Agent M suggested). A lawnmower blenny has been good at removing most of it except around the clown's anemone due to their aggression. I think the biggest issue with the RHA is that it does trap so much detritus at the base. Hydrogen peroxide is also a fantastic solution as I've seen a few people use it on here. @Wrangy also squirted boiling water directly onto his algae with success. I also blast my rocks with my pumps ever now and then, and stir up the sand bed. Sumps really help to catch detritus so you can easily vacuum it out.

That all said, I think the RHA is beautiful. That's just me though ;)
 

Agent M

Member
Oct 21, 2011
3,536
1,586
Melbourne
1. Are you using natural salt water? Only solutions I can offer you are buy an RO unit and salt so you can make it at home yourself. Or investigate getting it delivered to your home in larger qty's and set up a storage container for it.

2. I leave my lights off most of the day and have them on from mid afternoon. That way I can enjoy the tank during the hours I'm home most.

3. Thumbs up

4. Whatever solution you come up with, set your tank up in such a way that your tank isn't reliant on you from day to day and it isn't a stress if life gets in the way or if you lose interest in it for a while. Try to keep the detritus at a level where you could move the rocks around and swish the sand and it wouldn't turn the water brown. I've seen people dismantling their tanks, some really nice, immaculate looking tanks - and leave catching the fish till last. The water has become so brown once the rocks were taken out and everything got stirred up that its suddenly become a race against time to get the fish out, and some have died in just minutes. You should be able to poke the sand bed and not be afraid a giant sulfur bubble is going to erupt and kill something, honestly, haha :banghead

5. Its always good to check you have your flow as good as it can be - and that doesn't always mean at its strongest - at a point where its agitating the surface well for oxygen exchange, its reaching all areas of the aquarium and corals and fish are moving well in it. I don't think I've ever personally gotten my flow 100%, I'm always having to tinker with it.

6. Bang on - this is what the tank needs at the moment. Extra filtration of some kind - whether it be mechanical (eg. skimming), biological (eg. Marine Pure) or chemical (eg. Biopellet reactor). Options galore. It can be as simple or as complicated as you like.
 

ViralEntity

Member
Feb 13, 2013
148
81
Warragul
Thanks again for the comments guys, really appreciated. :worship

@Fragalicious would be able to advise on the algae scrubbers. As for biopellets best thing to get is a recirculating reactor so you can control how quickly they reduce your organic load.
I have had a chat to @Fragalicious on Facebook regarding the scrubbers, and the info was great. I think I am 90% sold on the idea, I just want to confirm that I am adding a sump before I purchase one as I don't want it on the DT forever. As for Biopellets, I just can't justify the cost of recirc on a tank this size. I could DIY one, but I want to limit my DIY to things I can confirm will work :p.

@Agent M:

1. I need to look into my options here a bit more. If I am increasing to more than 20% a week in water changes then I may need to go to salt mixes. I have an RO unit that just needs a new filter, but I don't have a huge amount of storage space beyond the ~10x 20L containers I have in the garage for holding salt water. Maybe one of the Gippsland locals on here can point me to a new water source :D

4. I think it was more a case of ignorance than lack of interest, routine maintenance isn't the issue so much as what maintenance I was performing. Not blowing down the rocks was a serious oversight along with assume that the flow was dealing with the waste just because the sand was clean. I like the 3D aquascape styles so I am keen to keep the rock work configuration, I just need to be more observant and considerate when feeding each day and during any maintenance I perform.

6. I am getting the design for the sump finalised this weekend and will pass it along to my mate to see if he can whip it up. If it isn't too difficult for him to do in Acrylic, then I will start ordering the parts for it otherwise I will have to toss up the cost of getting a shop to make it. Should be ok, he has made a lot fancier gear out of Acrylic. Then, having filter socks, a better skimmer and an ATS I think I should be ok.
 

ViralEntity

Member
Feb 13, 2013
148
81
Warragul
Wow it's been a busy weekend. My AMV (Algae Mower Vac) arrived on Friday and it was a pleasant surprise and a good trigger to start attacking that algae.

For those that haven't seen one:
IMG_0115.JPG

IMG_0117.JPG


Overall, it works as intended. It can be a bit fiddly to manipulate, and it is defiantly most effective used against the base of the algae.

Due to the algae on the top rock being almost 2 inches thick, I had to resort to trimming it back before hitting it with the AMV. This RHA is like nothing I have ever seen before - it is actually very tuff and incredibly well attached. The best description I can come up with is that it is similar to Blackberries both in how it grows and how strong each strand is. I had a small piece of GHA and the AMV just destroyed it in seconds, but this stuff quiet often removed chunks of stone rather than just break free!

In the end I basically spent 7hrs over the last 3 days grinding the top layer of stone off. The surprise was just how much gunk was trapped in the RHA. I filled the attached filter bag twice just with debris dislodged from the RHA. I will grab some FTS tonight to show the progress but for now here are a couple of shots of what was removed:
IMG_0118.JPG
IMG_0119.JPG
IMG_0120.JPG


The tank looks heaps better already, and the remaining hard to reach patches are going to get hit with H2O2 tonight in an attempt to remove them. I changed another 40L over the weekend and for the first time the parameters haven't continued to rise so hopefully the hard part is over.
 

Attachments

ViralEntity

Member
Feb 13, 2013
148
81
Warragul
As mentioned, here is the progress so far

image.jpg


You can see the rock I attacked looks heaps better. I have run out of time to get the H2O2 done tonight but a night off never hurts.
 

Agent M

Member
Oct 21, 2011
3,536
1,586
Melbourne
Awesome effort - must feel good to attack the stuff.

I saw a tip today for cleaning sand with a siphon hose, to attach a fork to the end of it to comb the sand and kick up the crap. Might be a good idea to clean your sand bed once you are done. I'll bet there is some accumulation of detritus there that will bring your nitrates down even further.