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[The Reefuge]

Hello everyone,

Due to a group buy that has gone south recently, I would like to hear feedback very much from both users and businesses regarding a new feature that we may or may not implement.

In this example, the user who organised the group buy received money from the users who wished to buy into it. The organiser then sent the money to the business to purchase the products. Due to various reasons, the business was either not able to get the products in or not able to issue a refund of the money. Furthermore, the business may be hesitating to contact the group buy organiser.

This leaves the group buy organiser in a bad situation as well as the members who sent money to buy stock. Obviously with a group buy it is a risk that users take when buying into it, as things can possibly go wrong and they are relying on other people to sort it out. This would also be a stressful time for the organiser.

The Reefuge is considering setting up a service where it covers both the supplier and the members, and we would like some feedback on who would be happy with such a service. To simply break it down

• Group buy organiser creates a list of stock to be purchased with the pricing
• Group buy organiser asks users to send the money to The Reefuge
• Group buy organiser verifies everyone has paid and all stock has been ordered
• The Reefuge holds the money during this time
• The supplier gathers stock and verifies they have everything in order
• The supplier sends stock out to whoever the group buy organiser agreed to (members, organiser, etc)
• Once stock has been received by (see above) then The Reefuge releases the money to the supplier

This way should a supplier, for any reason fail to hold up their end of the agreement, The Reefuge simply refunds the money back to the users.

There will be fees for a service like this, as there are fees to transfer money, but that can be discussed at a later date.

Users are covered should anything go south, and the LFS gets a nice sticker on their website they can display showing everyone they are a trusted business who has a good reputation.

I would like to hear feedback from both businesses and users.

Thanks.

 

[suta42]

Sounds great in theory but group buys usually aim to source products at lowest available costs, and this sometimes means the supplier won't put in the overseas order until he is paid. Guess that's a hurdle you'd need to overcome.

 

[leodb89]

sounds good but trying to find LFS' willing to participate might not be easy

 

[Elias]

Having a transactional intermediary for this type of thing is spot on the money! If businesses are not willing to participate, their loss. Most times we'll be able to group buy from elsewhere. Not only will this encourage existing members to participate in group buys, but this will add an incredible edge to The Reefuge over other forums. These type of ideas are exactly the sort of thing that needs putting out there. Imagine the number of new members that will be attracted by the availability of a secure group buy program within the community. Sure, there will be bugs that need ironing out but so what? 100% in the right direction! I for one am happy to put my hand up to help out with the Brains Trust on this one.

 

[Salty]

Caveat emptor. That all there is to it I think otherwise go to your LFS and buy from there. 9 time out of ten if its too good to be try then it prob is. Regarding Mr Reefuge's idea; Sound good if you want to put the yards in to making it happen (would serve you well when you market the forums structure) otherwise the group buy organizer and just organise payment with PayPal.

 

[Ian G]

Love it.

 

[The Reefuge]

Sounds great in theory but group buys usually aim to source products at lowest available costs, and this sometimes means the supplier won't put in the overseas order until he is paid. Guess that's a hurdle you'd need to overcome.

Hello @suta42,

Agreed, however the LFS also has something to gain from this. The Reefuge community is growing, and it is growing at a fast rate. Our members are very active, we rack up a decent amount of new content every day. I can track all member activity easily, and by looking at the stats I can see how many members are active, how much they read, where they flow, etc. By giving participating businesses a badge they immediately become a trusted business within this community. This gives them free publicity and their business name becomes popular within The Reefuge community.

I am guessing that a business with our badge of honor will get more business through The Reefuge than a business would without it. The cost? A delay in the payment for stock.

However I also see your point very clearly and I would like to brainstorm with the community about how a service like this, or similar, would work.

EDIT: Also the supplier is guaranteed payment regardless of if a user changes their mind or not. The Reefuge is the money carrier. It will be part of the terms that once the money is sent to The Reefuge it will not be returned to the user unless the supplier does something wrong. This ensures that the supplier is also not wasting their time bringing in products. If they order them in, it will be irrelevant if a user changes their mind, as they will get paid either way.

Thanks.

 

[leodb89]

K&J first to implement

 

[chimaera]

I really like the idea and think you will get some smaller businesses to participate in this manner (including me), but agree with @suta42 in that the majority of larger retailers/manufacturers/LFS will not go for payment after delivery. In the scale of things, I can't imagine Group Buys are overly attractive to businesses and therefore why would they take on the risk?

As TR is operating this with a fee and to its own benefit, how about the payment is made pre-delivery as normal and TR takes the risk of something going wrong?

Or, you do it as you planned but acknowledge that the range of GBs available will be limited to those businesses who will participate.

 

[captivereef]

From a business stand point, I see no real issue as such.

I think it is a large responsibility on @The Reefuge, but if they wish to do this then great.

It almost becomes a situation when @The Reefuge becomes a "retailer" as such. So from our stand point for example, @The Reefuge would be treated as a reseller of ours. @The Reefuge places the order, with a different ship to address (drop shipping sales so to speak).

Or in this situation, @The Reefuge could be acting as providing 'affiliate sales' (i.e. commission on sales) for it's customers (The Reefuge members) at discounted prices.

This is something that @The Reefuge needs to decide whether they want to get involved in.

 

[Luke]

I really like the idea and think you will get some smaller businesses to participate in this manner (including me), but agree with @suta42 in that the majority of larger retailers/manufacturers/LFS will not go for payment after delivery. In the scale of things, I can't imagine Group Buys are overly attractive to businesses and therefore why would they take on the risk?

As TR is operating this with a fee and to its own benefit, how about the payment is made pre-delivery as normal and TR takes the risk of something going wrong?

Or, you do it as you planned but acknowledge that the range of GBs available will be limited to those businesses who will participate.

Group buy for frag racks :)

 

[The Reefuge]

I really like the idea and think you will get some smaller businesses to participate in this manner (including me), but agree with @suta42 in that the majority of larger retailers/manufacturers/LFS will not go for payment after delivery. In the scale of things, I can't imagine Group Buys are overly attractive to businesses and therefore why would they take on the risk?

As TR is operating this with a fee and to its own benefit, how about the payment is made pre-delivery as normal and TR takes the risk of something going wrong?

Or, you do it as you planned but acknowledge that the range of GBs available will be limited to those businesses who will participate.

The Reefuge is not operating this for its own benefit. A fee would be to cover costs of money transaction, not profit. Why should The Reefuge take a risk for a service it is providing to both businesses and members to have a risk-free way of trading when there is absolutely nothing in it for The Reefuge to gain? (aside from providing a safe way of trading on its website)

Thanks.

 

[The Reefuge]

From a business stand point, I see no real issue as such.

I think it is a large responsibility on @The Reefuge, but if they wish to do this then great.

It almost becomes a situation when @The Reefuge becomes a "retailer" as such. So from our stand point for example, @The Reefuge would be treated as a reseller of ours. @The Reefuge places the order, with a different ship to address (drop shipping sales so to speak).

Or in this situation, @The Reefuge could be acting as providing 'affiliate sales' (i.e. commission on sales) for it's customers (The Reefuge members) at discounted prices.

This is something that @The Reefuge needs to decide whether they want to get involved in.

Hello @captivereef,

The Reefuge would not be a group seller. The Reefuge will simply be the party who holds the money and overlooks the transaction. If all money is paid in full, The Reefuge waits until your business has supplied the goods. Once this happens, we simply pass the money to you. Should you not follow through with the sale for any reason, the members get their money back. Should the members not follow through for any reason, you get the money.

Thanks.

 

[Elias]

@captivereef, I see your point but I don't think that TR becomes a reseller. They are simply providing an additional service to its members, that being, security, amongst other things, during a Group Buy. I don't see how TR stands to gain, or intends to gain financially, other than to cover costs involved in handling monies. This is a brilliant idea, outside the box type stuff. We want The Reefuge to stand out in the crowd and this is one way to do it. @Salty, Caviet Emptor (Buyer Beware) is exactly the point, but not in the way it has been made. TR is trying to offer a service that takes away some of that uncertainty and risk, opening up opportunities for members that perhaps otherwise they may have passed up.

 

[rockerpeller]

So in other words The Reefuge will be doing what Paypal does?

 

[chimaera]

The Reefuge is not operating this for its own benefit. A fee would be to cover costs of money transaction, not profit. Why should The Reefuge take a risk for a service it is providing to both businesses and members to have a risk-free way of trading when there is absolutely nothing in it for The Reefuge to gain? (aside from providing a safe way of trading on its website)

Thanks.

@captivereef, I see your point but I don't think that TR becomes a reseller. They are simply providing an additional service to its members, that being, security, amongst other things, during a Group Buy. I don't see how TR stands to gain, or intends to gain financially, other than to cover costs involved in handling monies. This is a brilliant idea, outside the box type stuff. We want The Reefuge to stand out in the crowd and this is one way to do it. @Salty, Caviet Emptor (Buyer Beware) is exactly the point, but not in the way it has been made. TR is trying to offer a service that takes away some of that uncertainty and risk, opening up opportunities for members that perhaps otherwise they may have passed up.

The red underlined part is what TR stands to gain. Granted not directly financial, but it's marketing at the end of the day. More users = more traffic and eyeballs = more business sponsors = $.

I am not trying to be cynical here, I would love to see this work. I just really do not believe the idea of goods before cash has any legs.

 

[The Reefuge]

The red underlined part is what TR stands to gain. Granted not directly financial, but it's marketing at the end of the day. More users = more traffic and eyeballs = more business sponsors = $.

I am not trying to be cynical here, I would love to see this work. I just really do not believe the idea of goods before cash has any legs.

Hello @chimaera,

I do not believe that it would help The Reefuge stand out at all. It will only be a service provided to its members and business accounts to keep things neat and tidy. The intention of The Reefuge gaining exposure due to the service is simply not there.

I am sure it was not the intention of the statement, but to me it seems like The Reefuge should have to take on huge responsibility and financial liability simply because it may or may not gain publicity.

I do however agree that the idea of goods before cash is going to be tough to pull off, however the businesses who take part in this deal will have more publicity as a result of simply delaying the payment. In turn they also are risk-free of ordering a bunch of stock only to have members back out. They will be trusted by more members, and as a result The Reefuge members will be more likely to buy from them as opposed to non-reefuge business accounts.

The only way I can come up with, which leaves every party risk free is the way I mentioned it. However, if you have any ideas on how it can work where all parties are covered please mention them, as feedback is important and required.

Thanks.

 

[Salty]

Again, sound great but I doubt it will happen. As a non profit organization TR will need to register as such, accounting and book keeping will need to be implemented. TR will also without doubt need to at one point or another need to act as a mediator and more so even a judge and jury. So some base work will need to be put in place for this instance. Further more this base line need to be legally correct and would also be good if it were morally and ethically balanced also.

Also to note, there's reasons why we have consumers, retailers, distributors and importers and if you go to a back door you need to be ready to accept a little backlash. Hey I'm not innocent, I've bought online and I've copped it. I have also lived and learned.

 

[The Reefuge]

Again, sound great but I doubt it will happen. As a non profit organization TR will need to register as such, accounting and book keeping will need to be implemented. TR will also without doubt need to at one point or another need to act as a mediator and more so even a judge and jury. So some base work will need to be put in place for this instance. Further more this base line need to be legally correct and would also be good if it were morally and ethically balanced also.

Also to note, there's reasons why we have consumers, retailers, distributors and importers and if you go to a back door you need to be ready to accept a little backlash. Hey I'm not innocent, I've bought online and I've copped it. I have also lived and learned.

Hello @Salty,

The Reefuge is not a non profit organisation. The Reefuge is a registered business in Australia.

Thanks.

 

[The Reefuge]

So in other words The Reefuge will be doing what Paypal does?

Hello @rockerpeller,

If paypal provides a service like this it would be even better. I can simply patch into their API and set up a program for The Reefuge members to put group buy orders through. If the business does not provide stock, it is paypals problem. If the users pull out, it is paypals problem. I will look further into this.

Thanks.