Vinegar

Discussion in 'Additives' started by Susan Bates, May 15, 2016.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)

  1. Susan Bates

    Susan Bates Member

    Messages:
    793
    Ratings:
    +140
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    new south wales
    I just read a article on using vinegar to reduce nitrates, what is every ones opinion on this please?
  2. IJG3145

    IJG3145 Member

    Messages:
    457
    Ratings:
    +273
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    Vic
    It is carbon dosing. I don't know much about it except that most people use vodka instead of vinegar and at something like 40x the price of vinegar, there must be pretty good reasons.
  3. slin1977

    slin1977 Member

    Messages:
    3,608
    Ratings:
    +3,117
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    NSW
    Care to share the link?
  4. Lesley

    Lesley Member

    Messages:
    2,145
    Ratings:
    +2,227
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    South Australia
    Red Sea nopox is same
    Carbon dosing
    Read up on it. It has to be carefully tested & understood
    It's a cheap way but not for everyone
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Susan Bates

    Susan Bates Member

    Messages:
    793
    Ratings:
    +140
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    new south wales
    reefkeeping.com/116/vineagerdosing
  6. slin1977

    slin1977 Member

    Messages:
    3,608
    Ratings:
    +3,117
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    NSW
  7. Susan Bates

    Susan Bates Member

    Messages:
    793
    Ratings:
    +140
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    new south wales
  8. RobbieMVFC

    RobbieMVFC Member

    Messages:
    1,291
    Ratings:
    +1,039
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    Victoria
    as stated by many others its a form of carbon dosing.
    I have used many forms of it Vodka, bio pellets and Zeovit but I haven't used Vinegar.
    I don't suspect there would be a great amount of difference however I have read that with Vinegar dosing you are less likely to get Canyo.
    In my experience all methods work great at reducing P04 and Nitrates.
    One thing I recommend is to start very slow with minimal dosing as you can reduce these parameters a little to quick that will end up causing you more grief.

    You must keep an eye on P04 & nitrates if they drop too low start feed more or reduce the amount you are dosing.
    another method I have used that I don't recommend is if they drop too low stop doing as many WC.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. Franklin Dattein

    Franklin Dattein Member

    Messages:
    328
    Ratings:
    +401
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    NSW
    I prefer Vinegar over the other alternatives for the following reasons:
    - It is cheap and readily available.
    - It is very diluted, thus very forgiving in case of over doses.
    - Acetic Acid seems to promote sponges growth more than other carbons sources.
    - I like to know exactly what I am dosing (in comparison to bio pellets, NoPOx, zeovit and other proprietary recipes)

    Also, the current Vinegar dosing tables you will find on Randy's articles weren't written by him. They were actually added at a later stage by the editors, based on a simple conversion from the Vodka dosing table. That table sits on the safe side, which makes it very safe if followed correctly.
    However, it also slows down the results and might not be enough to handle nitrates on heavily populated tanks.

    In practice, many people on the forums have ramped up the Vinegar dosage much faster than what is recommended by the table, without seeing side effects. Furthermore, reports of dosage schemes much higher than recommended, aren't uncommon.
    Basically it means: Start on the safe side, following the table and if it doesn't bring your nitrates to very low levels, go ahead and try dosing more than what is suggested, at small increments.

    Having that said, I would suggest to also get a better test kit. API is fine to tell if it is "nearly good, almost bad or really bad", but won't give you the precision needed to measure the very low levels of a carbon boosted tank.
    Last edited: May 16, 2016
    • Like Like x 4
    • Informative Informative x 2
  10. Susan Bates

    Susan Bates Member

    Messages:
    793
    Ratings:
    +140
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    new south wales
    400lt tank how much would you dose and is there any special type of vinegar to use
  11. NiCd

    NiCd Lead Moderator

    Messages:
    4,548
    Ratings:
    +2,680
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    NSW
    If you are already dosing nopox and this is not helping id think you might need to look at what is causing these massive nitrates and why no pox isnt helping.

    have you got some more details about your system (hardware, stocking, feeding etc)?
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Franklin Dattein

    Franklin Dattein Member

    Messages:
    328
    Ratings:
    +401
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    NSW
    @Susan Bates the link posted above shows a table guide and I suggest starting from there:
    http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index...ar-dosing-methodology-for-the-marine-aquarium
    According to it, you would start at 3.2ml/day and ramp up to 66.4ml/day and keep it going forward.

    Just to show how safe and forgiving that table is, I've been dosing 100ml/day (some times more) on a 180l tank, for a couple of years.
    Also, every time I had to reboot the dosing schedule, I go straight to 50ml/day for a week, then full dose going forward.
  13. Franklin Dattein

    Franklin Dattein Member

    Messages:
    328
    Ratings:
    +401
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    NSW
    Susan, I missed the bit that you are already dosing NoPox.
    While there are virtual advantages of dosing multiple carbon sources (check VSV method), I wouldn't recommend mixing it up. It adds an extra variable to the equation and makes it harder to predict.

    For sake of information completion, it is worth noting that NoPOX is much more concentrated than Vinegar, so don't try to apply Vinegar dosing tables to NoPOx.

    How many ml/day are you currently dosing?
    Is your skimmer skimmating more than before you started NoPOx?
    When have you started dosing?
    How and where do you dose?
  14. Susan Bates

    Susan Bates Member

    Messages:
    793
    Ratings:
    +140
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    new south wales
    2 x tangs, 2 x clown, 2 dragnets, 1 x wrasse, 1 blenny, 1 angle, 3 chromis, I feed 1 x day 3 x brine shrimp cubes, 1/2 lobster egg, next day pellets, heaps of marine pure in sump and lots of live rock in tank, shimmer is Aqua Medic blue 1000
  15. Susan Bates

    Susan Bates Member

    Messages:
    793
    Ratings:
    +140
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    new south wales
    10 ml a day, shimmer is good, clean it very second day, been using NoPOX for months, I dose in sump every morning, I was thinking of using vinegar in stead of NopOX
  16. Franklin Dattein

    Franklin Dattein Member

    Messages:
    328
    Ratings:
    +401
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    NSW
    It is safe to increase to 12ml/day of NoPox, that would still stay in the dosage recommended in the instructions. I guess that would be enough.

    In case of replacing NoPOx by Vinegar, it is difficult to give a precise answer, because Red Sea doesn't disclose what is in the bottle. I guess a sensible way is to replace it gradually, using a Vinegar x NoPox ratio

    For a 400L tank, based on NoPox instructions and Vinegar dosing table, the ratio would be: 12ml of NoPox equals to 66ml of Vinegar.

    Therefore, I would go something like 6ml NoPox + 33ml Vinegar for a few days and gradually replace it with Vinegar, at this ration, while monitoring Nitrate.

    A few things to note:
    - You will need a dosing pump. Vinegar is an acid and brings pH down, so the daily dose needs to be distributed along the day, to avoid lowering the tanks pH.
    - The ratio above is likely to be wrong. It is a good starting point, but frequent nitrate tests are the best way to monitor it.
    - The Vinegar ramp up table won't apply to your tank, because it is already using a carbon source. Starting from the initially recommended dose, will cause a bacteria reboot and likely a Nitrate spike.
  17. slin1977

    slin1977 Member

    Messages:
    3,608
    Ratings:
    +3,117
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    NSW
    @Susan Bates
    Ever considered feeding pellet food exclusively and ditching frozen brine?
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Susan Bates

    Susan Bates Member

    Messages:
    793
    Ratings:
    +140
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    new south wales
    Is that good for the fish, I feed the frozen socked in garlic only because I thought it was healthier of them, will is help with the nitrates , I defrost in ro water first
  19. slin1977

    slin1977 Member

    Messages:
    3,608
    Ratings:
    +3,117
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    NSW
    I like to think of it this way, brine shrimp and garlic are not found in the ocean.

    The same way that pellet food is not found in the ocean but a few pellet foods contain garlic and are more nutritious than brine shrimp alone.
    Last edited: May 16, 2016
  20. IJG3145

    IJG3145 Member

    Messages:
    457
    Ratings:
    +273
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    Vic
    You definitely don't want to mess around with carbon dosing while relying on an API test kit. I've known them to be up to 30ppm out compared to an electronic lab grade tester.:eek
    • Informative Informative x 1

Share This Page