Reef Discussion

[potatocouch]

As you might be aware, the tank is housing Fathead Anthias which requires frequent feeding, hence No3 has been high too.

I've been doing some readings on how @OSCAR85 able to keep a low-nutrients tank, with very minimal WC (If I recall, he mentioned 7% WC on weekly basis).

This is the objective that I want to achieve: frequent feeding but low nutrients.

As you can see from my CADE HL600 sump (top view), this is what I currently have and I've thinking to substitute the Live Rocks chamber with Zeovit reactor.

Do you think I should stick with Live Rocks and continue dosing NoPox? or should I replace the live rocks with Zeovit? that is if any Zeovit reactor will fit into 25.5cm x 21.5cm chamber.

Any input are much appreciated!

 

[Savage Henry]

I know nothing about Zeovit except that it is a system supplying bacteria and nutrients, with reagent to remove metabolites. I did look into it briefly because a fellow reefer is selling their supplies of reagents and I thought maybe I could have a go at it.

Straight up, I am generally anti-chemical except for maintaining KH and Ca.

But, I would be asking is Zeovit suitable for my system? The Zeovits I have seen have generally been people with SPS dominant tanks and with little fish.

What is it that you want? I thought you liked having loads of fish.
Are you ready for an sps dominant tank? Should you spend a year or two playing around with softies and lps and learn the ropes?

Sorry, no disrespect but I have been in the hobby long enough to have seen people reaching for all the best and expensive things they can buy only to become disappointed with the hobby and throw it all in.

I think for me Zeovits would be a long way down the track and it would have to be with an entirely different system then what I currently have and what I am aiming for.

I just can't wait to get some macro algae and see if that helps my phosphates and to see the little community of bugs I get with that alone.

 

[potatocouch]

I would eventually want to go down that track. Low No3 clean system, where I can keep SPS, LPS, Softies & fish in a cube tank.

Personally I am not sure whether anyone has ever achieve such thing, hence I was just exploring my option.

 

[Savage Henry]

I think you have got a great setup and could do a lot more with it to enjoy it rather than trying new things.

 

[potatocouch]

I think you have got a great setup and could do a lot more with it to enjoy it rather than trying new things.

Maybe you're right. I need to take a walk to clear my head.

 

[MaccaPopEye]

If you have space in your sump then I think the best thing to put there would be something for natural nutrient removal. I would recommend an algae turf scrubber but a fuge with macro algae would work fine too.

I think algae turf scrubbers are better in theory since they can be sized pretty much perfectly for the amount of food you put into the tank or a bit over and if sized and lit properly they can remove the need for GFO and keep NO3 and PO4 in check.

I think the aussie dealer for the up flow algae scrubbers is fragalicious. These scrubbers sit below the water level and would still leave room for a Marine pure block (way better than live rock) or a reactor (would be useful to have some activated carbon in).

Or you can make a DIY waterfall style one which sits above the water (or order a premade on from overseas which is very expensive IMO).

A fuge could also be easily done with a grow light hanging above the section and throwing in some chaeto.

 

[potatocouch]

@MaccaPopEye pardon my stupidity, I get it when you said up flow algae scrubbers below water level.

The one I don't quite follow when you said "would still leave room for Marine Pure Block or a reactor". I would assume you meant reactor that sit outside the sump i.e. Avast Marine Vibe etc ? I googled Marine Pure Block, they're literally block, so I'm not too sure how they would be effective above the water line?

I guess the objective for my thread here is to show my fellow reefers what currently there in my sump and whay can be done better. It may have been a perfect setting already but perhaps there is a room for improvement?

In terms of lowering nutrients (No3 & Po4), Macro Algae (Chaeto) / Up flow Algae Scrubbers 》 pile of Live Rocks?

 

[Sam Parker]

Checkout sulphur reactors, i wouldn't setup a high nutrient load tank without one now.

 

[potatocouch]

Checkout sulphur reactors, i wouldn't setup a high nutrient load tank without one now.

Interesting .. I read that this bad boy is a real deal ... quite expensive tho .. not sure which LFS stock em.

 

[Sam Parker]

there are a couple of options, passive (slow drip feed in and out of reactor (can use literally almost any existing reactor or make out of PVC etc.
OR
Recirculating reactor. This is basically the same as a calcium reactor (that's what I use). You can also DIY these (http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2009-01/diy/) and they are much more efficient. Same concept, you just get more contact time with the sulphur for the same effluent rate.

That link shown above has excellent information on how/why/where sulphur reactors work and is a good place to read up first.

 

[Sam Parker]

oh and here is when I set up my re-circulating reactor:
http://thereefuge.com/threads/stressful-weekend.12851/

 

[dimitri]

If you have space in your sump then I think the best thing to put there would be something for natural nutrient removal. I would recommend an algae turf scrubber but a fuge with macro algae would work fine too.

I think algae turf scrubbers are better in theory since they can be sized pretty much perfectly for the amount of food you put into the tank or a bit over and if sized and lit properly they can remove the need for GFO and keep NO3 and PO4 in check.

I think the aussie dealer for the up flow algae scrubbers is fragalicious. These scrubbers sit below the water level and would still leave room for a Marine pure block (way better than live rock) or a reactor (would be useful to have some activated carbon in).

Or you can make a DIY waterfall style one which sits above the water (or order a premade on from overseas which is very expensive IMO).

A fuge could also be easily done with a grow light hanging above the section and throwing in some chaeto.

one of my LFS tried the MPBlocks and it disintegrated in a few months, has anyone else had issues? - they claim to have a footballs field worth of surface area for the bacteria to grow, work and consume nutrients.

I have one of the Santa Monica floating ATS from Fragalicious and they are very good, if I turn it off for a day I see a huge breakout on my glass of brown algae film starting to build up, however I did not get real PO4 drops from it until I ran a reactor and Phos Media, I wouldn't use a GFO after doing a lot of reading, I came to the conclusion it wasn't right for me and was a bit messy, I think the white balls from Continuum or Seachem are better, and when they turn brown you know to change because it is exhausted.

MY PO4 was sitting at 1.0 for 3 months solid with the ATS, it is now down to 0.3 over a fortnight, and I changed the balls once already when the reading stayed pegged at 0.5 for 2 days in a row and the balls looked a bit light brown.

I have also had a POD outbreak this week, I am assuming its due to the ATS? or just dumb luck, but from opening the ATS there looks to be a wee bit of them scuttling around.

As a lot of the smarter reefers on here have taught me, you need multiple options and angles to tackle the nutrient removal issue, there is no CURE-ALL, and chemicals = very easy to wipe out tanks if you don't get it right.


the ATS from santa monica are expensive but they come in a few shapes and sizes

my sump has one, a phos reactor, a hydra-pure and a skimmer, it all JUST fits and the results are promising...

 

[MaccaPopEye]

@MaccaPopEye pardon my stupidity, I get it when you said up flow algae scrubbers below water level.

The one I don't quite follow when you said "would still leave room for Marine Pure Block or a reactor". I would assume you meant reactor that sit outside the sump i.e. Avast Marine Vibe etc ? I googled Marine Pure Block, they're literally block, so I'm not too sure how they would be effective above the water line?

I guess the objective for my thread here is to show my fellow reefers what currently there in my sump and whay can be done better. It may have been a perfect setting already but perhaps there is a room for improvement?

In terms of lowering nutrients (No3 & Po4), Macro Algae (Chaeto) / Up flow Algae Scrubbers 》 pile of Live Rocks?

No worries, NOT asking questions is stupidity so ask away.

The way the santa monica up flow scrubbers work is by having 2 black boxes. One box sits on the inside of the sump under the water (the side that grows algae), and the other box sits on the outside of the sump (contains the lights) and they are held together against the glass via magnets.

As an example if you got a HOG 3 scrubber form fragalicious (one of the bigger ones that would enable you to feed approx 3 cubes a day - so a lot of food) the dimensions of each box is 16.6cm wide x 21.9cm high x 3.75cm thick. So since only one box sits inside the sump and against the glass it will only take up 16.6cm x 3.75cm of room. The HOG 3 would require a water height of at least 21.9cm though so you will need to make sure your water is high enough for the scrubber you choose - if you do decide to get one.

Your picture shows the chamber you have is 25.5cm x 21.5cm so the scrubber would leave most of that room free since the HOG 3 only takes up 3.75cm back from one wall and smaller scrubbers would use even less room. This would leave most of the room free for other things.

Most reactors can also sit in the sump if you don't have room in the cabinet or if you are afraid of it leaking and some are even in-sump only, so you could put a reactor in there like the two little fish 150. The reactor can have whatever you want in it like activated carbon, GFO, bio pellets maybe even sulphur (I know nothing about it though).

The marine pure blocks also come in different sizes and even some small cubes or spheres which you can just pour in until the space is filled (kinda like live rock rubble but better) but obviously the bigger the better as more surface area=more bacteria. If you placed a HOG scrubber on the front of the sump (bottom in your picture) then you would still be able to fit a large marine pure block which is 20cm x 20cm x 10cm (just but it would fit) and it will need to be below the water (at least 10cm deep).

In terms of lowering nutrients, large bits of live rock and the large marine pure blocks will lower nitrate but do nothing for phosphate. Growing and then removing algae like in a fuge or scrubber will lower nitrates and phosphates. Running GFO in a reactor will lower phosphates until the GFO needs to be replaced.

 

[MaccaPopEye]

one of my LFS tried the MPBlocks and it disintegrated in a few months, has anyone else had issues? - they claim to have a footballs field worth of surface area for the bacteria to grow, work and consume nutrients.

I have one of the Santa Monica floating ATS from Fragalicious and they are very good, if I turn it off for a day I see a huge breakout on my glass of brown algae film starting to build up, however I did not get real PO4 drops from it until I ran a reactor and Phos Media, I wouldn't use a GFO after doing a lot of reading, I came to the conclusion it wasn't right for me and was a bit messy, I think the white balls from Continuum or Seachem are better, and when they turn brown you know to change because it is exhausted.

MY PO4 was sitting at 1.0 for 3 months solid with the ATS, it is now down to 0.3 over a fortnight, and I changed the balls once already when the reading stayed pegged at 0.5 for 2 days in a row and the balls looked a bit light brown.

I have also had a POD outbreak this week, I am assuming its due to the ATS? or just dumb luck, but from opening the ATS there looks to be a wee bit of them scuttling around.

As a lot of the smarter reefers on here have taught me, you need multiple options and angles to tackle the nutrient removal issue, there is no CURE-ALL, and chemicals = very easy to wipe out tanks if you don't get it right.


the ATS from santa monica are expensive but they come in a few shapes and sizes

my sump has one, a phos reactor, a hydra-pure and a skimmer, it all JUST fits and the results are promising...

I've had a large MP block in my sump for almost 6 months now. It took about 3 months but Nitrates went from about a constant 20ppm to less than 10ppm and a new skimmer has then taken nitrates down to un-detectable by my red sea kit.

I do know they can be a bit fragile bit it hasn't shown any signs of starting to crumble and my skimmer actually sits on it so it has a bit of vibration 24/7 :P this is only supposed to be temporary though.

If you have great growth in your ATS and still have PO4 issues it may not be big enough for your needs, but I'm sure it is still helping. I have read that pods do love them.

And multiple methods at once is certainly the best method. The only cure-all would be to plumb your system into a reef itself!

My sump has a filter sock, large MP block, deltec sc1350 skimmer and a TLF 150 reactor with GFO & GAC in it. I am in the process of planning and building a waterfall ATS too.

 

[Savage Henry]

No worries, NOT asking questions is stupidity so ask away.

The way the santa monica up flow scrubbers work is by having 2 black boxes. One box sits on the inside of the sump under the water (the side that grows algae), and the other box sits on the outside of the sump (contains the lights) and they are held together against the glass via magnets.

When I looked at these I seriously thought they must have a waterproof light. Thanks for the explanation.

 

[dimitri]

When I looked at these I seriously thought they must have a waterproof light. Thanks for the explanation.

the boat ones are waterproof.

 

[OSCAR85]

As you might be aware, the tank is housing Fathead Anthias which requires frequent feeding, hence No3 has been high too.

I've been doing some readings on how @OSCAR85 able to keep a low-nutrients tank, with very minimal WC (If I recall, he mentioned 7% WC on weekly basis).

This is the objective that I want to achieve: frequent feeding but low nutrients.

As you can see from my CADE HL600 sump (top view), this is what I currently have and I've thinking to substitute the Live Rocks chamber with Zeovit reactor.

View attachment 52830

Do you think I should stick with Live Rocks and continue dosing NoPox? or should I replace the live rocks with Zeovit? that is if any Zeovit reactor will fit into 25.5cm x 21.5cm chamber.

Any input are much appreciated!

sorry for the late reply

live rock gfo and no pox will still not give you results like my tank. Over the years i had gone through that exact process don't get me wrong its a great way to maintain a healthy tank but zeovit is different and is more bacteria based approach. Ill try to explain

gfo will reduce phos but it will also starv certain strains of bacteria that also reduce the phos. (bacteria is a better option)

live rock does offer colonisation for bacteria but it reaches a saturation point (hence old tank syndrome)
the zeolites not only create new fresh real-estate for bacteria

no pox, good carbon dosing but not as advanced as zeovit formulas.

It might be worth me saying that i have not logged on in a long time and i also sold my tank a long time ago.
When i have completed study i will absolutely have another tank and after everything i have tried i will go back to zeovit and dabble with some triton no doubt.