I have put the lights on the Mini reef and the lights are looking at been upgraded at present, But the costing will take time to build them, i am thinking of replacing the Flo light with the LEd Lights, But need to work out how many i will need to do this project, i will be testing the parameters this long weekend, that i have off. i will get some pics up of the new update as soon as possible.
Tank Journal Archive
I have the Following Updated Pictures taken tonight of the tank
1.
Full Picture Shot with the Lights and Tank and Stand
2.
Left Side
More from The left
Middle of the tank
Right Side of the Tank
Full Shot of Mini Reef
Couple closer shot of the mini Reef
[Broken External Image]:http://i40.tinypic.com/2ryskk4.jpg
Octpus Protein Skimmer
Close up shot of the Aquael Reef Circulator 2600
1.
Full Picture Shot with the Lights and Tank and Stand
2.
More from The left
Middle of the tank
Right Side of the Tank
Full Shot of Mini Reef
Couple closer shot of the mini Reef
[Broken External Image]:http://i40.tinypic.com/2ryskk4.jpg
Octpus Protein Skimmer
Close up shot of the Aquael Reef Circulator 2600
Hey Chris,
We can tweek your sump to perform better in the long term and id suggest doing it now before you go to far down the track.
Get others opinions first and do your own research but ill try and explain a bit of method behind the madness. I know ill be recapping a lot of stuff you probably already know but thought id try and paint a fuller picture for others that may read on later.
The filter wool and sponges are great for removing debris from the water but gather debris and end up causing nitrate issues. The reason reason for this is debris is trapped there and bacteria will begin to break it down but they cannot complete the cycle of completely breaking it down because their density does not allow for suboxic conditions. There is a little more to the nitrogen cycle that usually explained, here is a diagram showing the current belief on its stages.
[Broken External Image]:http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/4/chemistry_album/Fig_1.jpg
So in an oxic (oxygen present) environment you will never go beyond the nitrate section of waste disposal through biological breakdown.
Some people use filter socks etc to achieve the removal of debris but it requires the sock to be removed every 24 to 48 hours swapped with another. The removed sock then needs to be soaked in bleach to kill the bacteria and break down the waste its collected before it can be reused. Traditionally I have always though that the work on this outweighs the benefits but am starting to come around to the thought and I may have a crack at in on my next set up.
Skimmers are the back bone of modern reefing filtration, they work by removing the waste before it has a chance to break down biologically. In your current set up waste gets passed through various biological medias before it goes to the skimmer., skimmers also like a constant water level or they go out of tune, so having them in the last chamber with an ever changing water level means that you will find it very difficult to achieve good results, its also getting last bite of the waste cherry where it is most valuable getting the first.
Matrix provides the same effect as live rock rubble in a ref tank, nothing wrong with using it instead of live rock, being in a bag makes it easier to shake off debris, keep using it cause you have it but i wouldn't be throwing any more money at it to increase the amount you have when smashed up LR does the same thing.
Looks like your using polly filter, that is fine you can use carbon and a rowphos or other ferrious oxide based medias they are great at doing what they are do. polly filter at least shows you when its past its used by date by changing colours. only think i don't like about it is that its essentially a sponge/filter wool so can trap debris, but just need make sure you use it in the last stages of the filter as you have.
So what I would suggest doing it chucking the wool/sponges in the fist two chambers, removing the glass and making them into a larger chamber, install the skimmer in this section to give it the opportunity to remove as much waste as possible before it gets a chance to break down. Place the bag of matrix under the poly filter.
You then need to have a method of managing your nitrates and phosphates. The live rock in your tank and the matrix in the sump will manage your nitrates a bit but usually not to the extent that is required once your system is in full swing.
Some people use macro algae in refugiums in reverse light cycles and this does work and has other benefits, but the design of you sump makes it difficult to incorporate to a successful level.
You then can create suboxic environments to manage your nitrates by using deep sand beds or marine pure or nice big porous pieces of LR.
Carbon dosing as you have already started to play around with can be very successful but needs to be done correctly or it will cause sever issues. It works by feeding bacteria which bind the nitrates and phosphates within themselves as biomass and you then skim the out of the water table using an over powered skimmer. It can be done with products like vodka, sugar and vinegar, bio pellets or the Red sea nophox like you already have.
Given your friends with Talbot id suggest grabbing a couple of 4" thick marine pure blocks from him (this isnt to say an ice cream bucket full of sugar fine aragonite wont do the same thing, just the if you friends with him its easily and cheaply at your disposal) and throwing one in the first chamber with the skimmer and one in the last with the return pump and using the RS nophosx but as per directions, which is constantly and adjusting the dosed amount to reflect your water parameters (no sudden changes)
So to recap, i think ditch the wools, merge the first two chambers, have your skimmer and a marinepure block in there, pop the matrix under the polly filter/carbon/ferrious oxide (whatever you end up using) and then have return and another marine pure block and keep up the carbon dosing.
You can also tell me to shove it and I like it the way it is hehe, but as I said seek others opinions before making any changes, but that is my advice/suggestions for what its worth.
We can tweek your sump to perform better in the long term and id suggest doing it now before you go to far down the track.
Get others opinions first and do your own research but ill try and explain a bit of method behind the madness. I know ill be recapping a lot of stuff you probably already know but thought id try and paint a fuller picture for others that may read on later.
The filter wool and sponges are great for removing debris from the water but gather debris and end up causing nitrate issues. The reason reason for this is debris is trapped there and bacteria will begin to break it down but they cannot complete the cycle of completely breaking it down because their density does not allow for suboxic conditions. There is a little more to the nitrogen cycle that usually explained, here is a diagram showing the current belief on its stages.
[Broken External Image]:http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/4/chemistry_album/Fig_1.jpg
So in an oxic (oxygen present) environment you will never go beyond the nitrate section of waste disposal through biological breakdown.
Some people use filter socks etc to achieve the removal of debris but it requires the sock to be removed every 24 to 48 hours swapped with another. The removed sock then needs to be soaked in bleach to kill the bacteria and break down the waste its collected before it can be reused. Traditionally I have always though that the work on this outweighs the benefits but am starting to come around to the thought and I may have a crack at in on my next set up.
Skimmers are the back bone of modern reefing filtration, they work by removing the waste before it has a chance to break down biologically. In your current set up waste gets passed through various biological medias before it goes to the skimmer., skimmers also like a constant water level or they go out of tune, so having them in the last chamber with an ever changing water level means that you will find it very difficult to achieve good results, its also getting last bite of the waste cherry where it is most valuable getting the first.
Matrix provides the same effect as live rock rubble in a ref tank, nothing wrong with using it instead of live rock, being in a bag makes it easier to shake off debris, keep using it cause you have it but i wouldn't be throwing any more money at it to increase the amount you have when smashed up LR does the same thing.
Looks like your using polly filter, that is fine you can use carbon and a rowphos or other ferrious oxide based medias they are great at doing what they are do. polly filter at least shows you when its past its used by date by changing colours. only think i don't like about it is that its essentially a sponge/filter wool so can trap debris, but just need make sure you use it in the last stages of the filter as you have.
So what I would suggest doing it chucking the wool/sponges in the fist two chambers, removing the glass and making them into a larger chamber, install the skimmer in this section to give it the opportunity to remove as much waste as possible before it gets a chance to break down. Place the bag of matrix under the poly filter.
You then need to have a method of managing your nitrates and phosphates. The live rock in your tank and the matrix in the sump will manage your nitrates a bit but usually not to the extent that is required once your system is in full swing.
Some people use macro algae in refugiums in reverse light cycles and this does work and has other benefits, but the design of you sump makes it difficult to incorporate to a successful level.
You then can create suboxic environments to manage your nitrates by using deep sand beds or marine pure or nice big porous pieces of LR.
Carbon dosing as you have already started to play around with can be very successful but needs to be done correctly or it will cause sever issues. It works by feeding bacteria which bind the nitrates and phosphates within themselves as biomass and you then skim the out of the water table using an over powered skimmer. It can be done with products like vodka, sugar and vinegar, bio pellets or the Red sea nophox like you already have.
Given your friends with Talbot id suggest grabbing a couple of 4" thick marine pure blocks from him (this isnt to say an ice cream bucket full of sugar fine aragonite wont do the same thing, just the if you friends with him its easily and cheaply at your disposal) and throwing one in the first chamber with the skimmer and one in the last with the return pump and using the RS nophosx but as per directions, which is constantly and adjusting the dosed amount to reflect your water parameters (no sudden changes)
So to recap, i think ditch the wools, merge the first two chambers, have your skimmer and a marinepure block in there, pop the matrix under the polly filter/carbon/ferrious oxide (whatever you end up using) and then have return and another marine pure block and keep up the carbon dosing.
You can also tell me to shove it and I like it the way it is hehe, but as I said seek others opinions before making any changes, but that is my advice/suggestions for what its worth.
I didn't want to remove the glass from the sump, i have just brought within less 1 month ago, but i am thinking of changing the sump to the following media.
1. Marine Pure ( waiting for funding )& Filter Wool
2. Matrix & Marine Pure ( waiting for more funds )
3. Phosphate Pads & Sponges
Main Return
1. Skimmer
2. Return Pump
3. phosphate ban
Would like your thoughts on this matter, trying to elimate the phos & nitrate before returning back to the tank.
1. Marine Pure ( waiting for funding )& Filter Wool
2. Matrix & Marine Pure ( waiting for more funds )
3. Phosphate Pads & Sponges
Main Return
1. Skimmer
2. Return Pump
3. phosphate ban
Would like your thoughts on this matter, trying to elimate the phos & nitrate before returning back to the tank.
You will be bound for problems
So think of the filter as a toilet with a septic system.
You have several ways of managing the waste but at the end of the day the goal is for it not to interfere with your life.
Filter wool and protein skimmers are mechanical filtration so they dont break the waste down they are designed to aid physically removing it.
Imagine wool placed in the first section of your filter as putting a piece of fly screen across your toilet seat. liquid waste will pass through but solid waste will be caught there. Now if you remove that fly screen every 24 hours, throw away the solids and bleach the fly screen to sanitize it, well this is a method of dealing with waste. But leave it there for weeks.... months and keep building up solid feces, you will have nasty byproducts dripping through the fly screen to the next stages but you are in a pretty bad situation.
Now think of protein skimmer as a mega industrial exhaust fan in your bathroom, nearly all liquid waste is removed straight away before it has chance to be of any issue and a fair chunk of the solid waste is as well. Its effectively doing the job of removing the waste before it causes any issues but without you having to get your hands as dirty and as regularly.
If you put the fan (skimmer) after the fly screen it will catch some of the liquid and nasty stuff that drips through but it doesn't solve the issue that you have a pile of nasty stuff causing issues.
Now whatever gets past these mechanical layers has to be dealt with by biological means, same as a septic system.
Think of this as a society. There is a delicate balance with different people performing different jobs.
The people doing the hard work at the front of the process, they are the first to pop up in any new place, reproduce the quickest and can live in vast range of conditions. On your glass, surface of rocks, on the fly screen with the feces you name it.
Then we have middle management, they take a little longer to pop up and are slightly more fussy where they live and take alot longer to reproduce.
Then you have your upper management. They take along time before they appear on the scene and focus on dealing with the high level problems, they reproduce very slowly and require very specific conditions to live in. They refuse to live in houses like sponges or amongst the front line and middle management and will only be found deep in the center of live rock, deep sand beds and marine pure blocks.
So assuming you have your housing sorted out you have a pretty balanced society but there is problem of excess, so we start interfering chemically by adding vodka (carbon) They all reproduce a lot more. Now if we remove the vodka really quickly everybody realizes they have 20 kids in a 2 bedroom unit and things become messy.
But now we have a situation where people are breeding too quick beyond the amount of work there is. If they starve they die and create pollution so when ideally want to remove a bunch of these people so we remove (skim) them out and they take all of the waste they have built up with them. If we didn't remove (skim) them, then adding vodka would only cause issues so the two need to go hand in hand.
We can also manage the problems directly with chemicals such as the phosphate pads etc in the same way a nuke does, this should be the last line of defense.
So think of the filter as a toilet with a septic system.
You have several ways of managing the waste but at the end of the day the goal is for it not to interfere with your life.
Filter wool and protein skimmers are mechanical filtration so they dont break the waste down they are designed to aid physically removing it.
Imagine wool placed in the first section of your filter as putting a piece of fly screen across your toilet seat. liquid waste will pass through but solid waste will be caught there. Now if you remove that fly screen every 24 hours, throw away the solids and bleach the fly screen to sanitize it, well this is a method of dealing with waste. But leave it there for weeks.... months and keep building up solid feces, you will have nasty byproducts dripping through the fly screen to the next stages but you are in a pretty bad situation.
Now think of protein skimmer as a mega industrial exhaust fan in your bathroom, nearly all liquid waste is removed straight away before it has chance to be of any issue and a fair chunk of the solid waste is as well. Its effectively doing the job of removing the waste before it causes any issues but without you having to get your hands as dirty and as regularly.
If you put the fan (skimmer) after the fly screen it will catch some of the liquid and nasty stuff that drips through but it doesn't solve the issue that you have a pile of nasty stuff causing issues.
Now whatever gets past these mechanical layers has to be dealt with by biological means, same as a septic system.
Think of this as a society. There is a delicate balance with different people performing different jobs.
The people doing the hard work at the front of the process, they are the first to pop up in any new place, reproduce the quickest and can live in vast range of conditions. On your glass, surface of rocks, on the fly screen with the feces you name it.
Then we have middle management, they take a little longer to pop up and are slightly more fussy where they live and take alot longer to reproduce.
Then you have your upper management. They take along time before they appear on the scene and focus on dealing with the high level problems, they reproduce very slowly and require very specific conditions to live in. They refuse to live in houses like sponges or amongst the front line and middle management and will only be found deep in the center of live rock, deep sand beds and marine pure blocks.
So assuming you have your housing sorted out you have a pretty balanced society but there is problem of excess, so we start interfering chemically by adding vodka (carbon) They all reproduce a lot more. Now if we remove the vodka really quickly everybody realizes they have 20 kids in a 2 bedroom unit and things become messy.
But now we have a situation where people are breeding too quick beyond the amount of work there is. If they starve they die and create pollution so when ideally want to remove a bunch of these people so we remove (skim) them out and they take all of the waste they have built up with them. If we didn't remove (skim) them, then adding vodka would only cause issues so the two need to go hand in hand.
We can also manage the problems directly with chemicals such as the phosphate pads etc in the same way a nuke does, this should be the last line of defense.
Adam that couldnt be better said. easy to understand to,
to sumerise
-ditch filter wools/sponges
-move skimmer into a section that the water level stays consistant (this is the most annoying thing you will EVER have to deal with, alternating water level is a kick in the .. you will never get it tuned perfectly)
-be carefully with NO3PO4 you can kill your whole tank very easily with this product.
i used to use a filter sock, it was excellent removed all floating particles although i got over changing it 3 times a week so i stoped using them!
to sumerise
-ditch filter wools/sponges
-move skimmer into a section that the water level stays consistant (this is the most annoying thing you will EVER have to deal with, alternating water level is a kick in the .. you will never get it tuned perfectly)
-be carefully with NO3PO4 you can kill your whole tank very easily with this product.
i used to use a filter sock, it was excellent removed all floating particles although i got over changing it 3 times a week so i stoped using them!
looks like i am going to have alot of fun, I cant get the skimmer into the from of the first compartment, as there is tubing then runs a arm that lets the water out into the first compartment, then it then flow to the send compartment and then 3rd compartment and then to last chamber for return pump and then baxck into the tank.
Its hard when you get this information from a marine store that told me to do this, do i every trust the advice of the store again, MMM
1. wool & small pieces of live rock
2. Sponges & matrix
3. Phos Sponge & live rock
4. Protein skimmer & return Pump
Its hard when you get this information from a marine store that told me to do this, do i every trust the advice of the store again, MMM
1. wool & small pieces of live rock
2. Sponges & matrix
3. Phos Sponge & live rock
4. Protein skimmer & return Pump
After speaking with paul tabot today at majestic , I brought some marine pure about 2 litres for about $60.00, Also i brought 3 x Sunburst Anthias from LFS & got 15 % discount today as well, That all they had left.
Did you grab the balls or plates of the marine pure?
The starburst are a very pretty fish, i may just be unlucky but ive previously had trouble getting them to feed in groups smaller than 6. They tend to be a bit timid and need that school protection thing happening, well at least thats my theroy.
Ive found they also benefit from some fattening up in QT otherwise I loose a few. What is your plans food wise for them?
The starburst are a very pretty fish, i may just be unlucky but ive previously had trouble getting them to feed in groups smaller than 6. They tend to be a bit timid and need that school protection thing happening, well at least thats my theroy.
Ive found they also benefit from some fattening up in QT otherwise I loose a few. What is your plans food wise for them?
