Reef Discussion

chimaera

enjoy the little things
May 13, 2012
5,473
2,295
Sandringham
Might pull in @chimaera to this thread as he's a nano guru who might be able to share his experience - I haven't had a nano for years, but he might be able to provide some useful nano-specific tips (as these do vary a bit compared to big tanks!).
Ah crap, now you've set expectations that I know something ... whereas really I just wing it ;)

I'll have a proper look through your TJ and this thread and get back to you a little later.
 

chimaera

enjoy the little things
May 13, 2012
5,473
2,295
Sandringham
Okay here are my thoughts.

Filtration
As a starting point, can you confirm the filtration system on the tank? I've spotted a filter intake and a spraybar, but is is a trickle filter system in the back of the hood area?

What filter medium do you have in there currently?

I would recommend using Purigen as your tank is still maturing and will have some ammonia/nitrite/nitrate spikes - the Purigen will help to smooth those. And also some phosphate remover such as Rowaphos already mentioned, or Chemi-Pure Elite (popular in the US in combination with Purigen for nanos).

Place it somewhere it will get flow (which is also why I'd like to see your filter system).

If you were to spend a bit of money to upgrade the tank, I would look to get an AquaClear70 HOB filter to replace the trickle filter and spray bar, then you can put your filter media in there, even convert to a little refugium to grow macro algae (plus it will look better). They are pricey, around $60-70 from memory, but worth it. In time you can also upgrade to an improved media basket (which cost about the same again ... but again worthwhile in time).


Water
Secondly on water changes - you can't really change 'too much' in a nano (you could argue the same for larger systems), so don't worry about the amount you change. In fact I would recommend the next couple doing large changes - if you use 25L drums then use a whole one, which would be 80% or so. As long as the temperature is similar to the tank water it will be fine. Ongoing I would increase the amount of the change from 15% up to 25% at least, the more the better really.

Which brings me on to the other aspects of water quality you have discussed. Forget about Alk, Calc and Magnesium at the moment. The NSW and water changes you do will replenish these more than sufficiently for the time being. Once you are fully stocked then maybe start worrying about those, but forget them for now, concentrate on the other aspects.


Algae
Now the tough one. After doing all of the above, your next step should be to introduce a more robust CUC. Get a few turbo snails, some cerith/nass snails (both of these live in and clean the substrate), maybe a hermit or two depending on your view of these (personally I don't like them!). Also see if you can get hold of some other things good for the tank - some bristle worms, stomatellas, mysid shrimp, amphipods, copepods ... all of these help to keep your tank clean.

Is the algae on the main rock? If the rock can be removed I would look into Hydrogen Peroxide applications (I can give you more details if this is the case) ... but if it can't it is a bit trickier, and you'll more so rely on your CUC and approaches above.


Next steps
I would not buy a new tank and cycle some new rock ... you'll likely just get algae transfer onto that and be back to square one, at which case you will probably give up on it all and sell your tank! Stick with it for a while longer at least, might take another month or two to rid the tank of algae (or at least reduce it to a manageable amount) but it's better than starting again. Unless you get really sick of it and lose motivation, then maybe consider that approach.


Overall don't feel like you are failing - algae issues occur in most new tanks, particularly the first on you start


If any of this doesn't make sense let me know.

Cheers
 

DavidS

The Resident Loony
Jul 17, 2011
3,337
1,033
Ballarat, Victoria
Ah crap, now you've set expectations that I know something ... whereas really I just wing it ;)

I'll have a proper look through your TJ and this thread and get back to you a little later.
Hahah, sorry mate, just wanted to get someone with an actual nano to throw in their two cents based on their experience to offset me getting all sciency :P
 

BoratJr

Member
Mar 20, 2013
98
12
Wollongong
I will defrost the brine shrimo on a paper towel that sounds like it will work, hopefully it shall remove/decrese the waste.

Also ill stop the bio-trac untill everything is sorted and settled.

Ill try also find a skimmer that may fit on my tank if not ill just do particle water changes every 4 days.

I hope doing this will work. Im going to also change rocks for now to remove it from my good tank untill its healthy and not going to go crazy again.
 

BoratJr

Member
Mar 20, 2013
98
12
Wollongong
Okay here are my thoughts.

Filtration
As a starting point, can you confirm the filtration system on the tank? I've spotted a filter intake and a spraybar, but is is a trickle filter system in the back of the hood area?

What filter medium do you have in there currently?

I would recommend using Purigen as your tank is still maturing and will have some ammonia/nitrite/nitrate spikes - the Purigen will help to smooth those. And also some phosphate remover such as Rowaphos already mentioned, or Chemi-Pure Elite (popular in the US in combination with Purigen for nanos).

Place it somewhere it will get flow (which is also why I'd like to see your filter system).

If you were to spend a bit of money to upgrade the tank, I would look to get an AquaClear70 HOB filter to replace the trickle filter and spray bar, then you can put your filter media in there, even convert to a little refugium to grow macro algae (plus it will look better). They are pricey, around $60-70 from memory, but worth it. In time you can also upgrade to an improved media basket (which cost about the same again ... but again worthwhile in time).


Water
Secondly on water changes - you can't really change 'too much' in a nano (you could argue the same for larger systems), so don't worry about the amount you change. In fact I would recommend the next couple doing large changes - if you use 25L drums then use a whole one, which would be 80% or so. As long as the temperature is similar to the tank water it will be fine. Ongoing I would increase the amount of the change from 15% up to 25% at least, the more the better really.

Which brings me on to the other aspects of water quality you have discussed. Forget about Alk, Calc and Magnesium at the moment. The NSW and water changes you do will replenish these more than sufficiently for the time being. Once you are fully stocked then maybe start worrying about those, but forget them for now, concentrate on the other aspects.


Algae
Now the tough one. After doing all of the above, your next step should be to introduce a more robust CUC. Get a few turbo snails, some cerith/nass snails (both of these live in and clean the substrate), maybe a hermit or two depending on your view of these (personally I don't like them!). Also see if you can get hold of some other things good for the tank - some bristle worms, stomatellas, mysid shrimp, amphipods, copepods ... all of these help to keep your tank clean.

Is the algae on the main rock? If the rock can be removed I would look into Hydrogen Peroxide applications (I can give you more details if this is the case) ... but if it can't it is a bit trickier, and you'll more so rely on your CUC and approaches above.


Next steps
I would not buy a new tank and cycle some new rock ... you'll likely just get algae transfer onto that and be back to square one, at which case you will probably give up on it all and sell your tank! Stick with it for a while longer at least, might take another month or two to rid the tank of algae (or at least reduce it to a manageable amount) but it's better than starting again. Unless you get really sick of it and lose motivation, then maybe consider that approach.


Overall don't feel like you are failing - algae issues occur in most new tanks, particularly the first on you start


If any of this doesn't make sense let me know.

Cheers
My filtration is a trickle system, and i have a poly filter, seachem matrix solution
and just filter matting.

I do not have any room in my filter to add any more media. I have a small water pump on the back of it.

And with the HOB filter you recomended i have a spare tank and filter with HOB in it. It is an aquael nano30.

Yes my algea is only bad on my live rock not so much on my substrate thats why i was going to swap rocks. And my rock can be removed quite easily.

The only thing about my infested rock at the moment is that it has coraline algae on it and a corella morph too.

Im getting more NSW tomorrow and i will do a big water change.

I will try get a good CUC happening in my tank aswell.

Can i put a different rock in my tank just to sit my corals on at least? I dont want to sit them on the substrate.

I was only going to cure new rock in my spare tank to make abot of scape for my corals while i try to fix my current rock.

I definatly dont want to sell up and quit i have spent too much money and time plus i really enjoy this hobby :)

Thanks alot Chim appreciate it.
 

chimaera

enjoy the little things
May 13, 2012
5,473
2,295
Sandringham
Okay so your filter media isn't too bad. I'd just try the large water changes and adding some decent CUC for now.

You can add some dry rock straight to the tank, it will cure in there and shouldn't cause a cycle (if it is proper clean dry rock). That way you can move your corals and take the current live rock out to treat - pull off as much algae as you can and get some food grade hyrdogen peroxide 3% solution.

You could throw the current rock, or dry it out .. but it would be a shame to lose all of that 'goodness' it has developed in there, so spot treating with peroxide (read up the link below) while in saltwater of the correct temperature should allow all of that life to remain when you put it back. And anything beneficial that pops out you can stick back in the tank.

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/268706-peroxide-saves-my-tank-with-pics-to-prove-it/
 

DavidS

The Resident Loony
Jul 17, 2011
3,337
1,033
Ballarat, Victoria
.... The thing you want to keep in mind is that base rock (dry rock) will often leech phosphate. It can be dealt with using muriatic acid in a process not for the feint of heart. Live rock can come with the same problem if it comes from a high phosphate system.As to whether or not the potential levels it could leech are worth worrying about, I really don't know.

So, you may actually find yourself adding to your phosphate situation by adding extra rock to deal with a symptom of said phosphate and excess nutrients - algae. The longer the phosphate is in there, the harder it is to get rid of as live rock can absorb the stuff and will leech it out later. Playing around to get rid of the symptoms is one thing (and with algae important enough), but you will still need to make sure you focus sorting out the chemistry side. You get that sorted out, and the algae won't be an unmanageable issue ;)