Help / Suggestions

[Puffy#79]

Hi guys. Just been sitting round at work and had a guy come round with a hat to collect money for a guy who hurt himself in a accident a few weeks ago and can't work just yet. They Collected a nice sum of $1200 off approx 80 guys.
Nice good work hey.
Well this got me thinking maybe we could implement this generous hat collection into the world of reefers.
Say there is something you would like for your tank that's going to take a long time to save or just unattainable because its purely out of the budget.
So this member puts his claim to the reefuge with a sweet little story in a post and then all the other guys can chip in a couple bucks for the fund. 200 members at $5 bucks is $1000. That's a lot of cash but only a small amount if your chucking In. Man i pay more then that for postage on things.
You obviously would have to only allow a member the offer once upto a certain amount. And you would not have to donate more than a set amount per year. You could almost call it a membership but it goes back to the members.
Just a thought.

 

[Azfish]

Trust is a strange concept for some.

I like this idea in theory, however, reality then comes along and kicks me in the nuts.

Who would hold the funds in trust?
How can we be certain the money is being used for the tank?
Is the person holding the funds in trust, trustworthy?
How do we determine if one person is in more need than another person?

Hell, I could really do with a Vertex Alpha 170 skimmer, why? because I need it. See, I said I need it, not that I want it. Likewise, will a person need the equipment or do they simply want it?

 

[Puffy#79]

I suppose need and want could almost be called the same thing and there for would not be able to tell the difference. As far as the cash probably a moderator could hold the cash of the owner of the site.
Maybe you would have to say only 3 donations of a fixed price a year per member and only one member per month gets his gift. I could work but obviously like everything it will have teething issues.
Maybe you could get honest members to pay the amount per year and only those members get a one off gift. There is plenty of ways you can make it work.
Ps I want ( I mean need) a set of led lights That don't cause massive algae blooms

 

[Azfish]

I do think the idea has merit, and $5 or even $10 is not a huge amount the scheme of things.

The overall framework for this idea would have to be carefully worked out and each request for a "gift" would need to carefully considered by a committee of people and the final say rests with the comittee, there should be no recourse for appeal, but see, here is where I think it could get ugly.

Lets say there is one member on here, not well liked by some but is equally entitlted to the same gift as other people, by virtue of the fact, he donated to the pool of funds. The comittee doesnt really like this person so the request is knocked back in favor of someone else. See where I am going with this?

Lets keep the discussion going, I do like this idea!

 

[MagicJ]

Most members on here are anonymous - we have no idea of their personal financial position or anything else about them.

Would you be happy if you donated some of your hard earned to a member only to subsequently discover that they were extremely rich or that they already owned equipment which was adequate but they just wanted something better?? I am sure that all of us would like to have some new equipment but how many of us actually need it??

I like the sentiment of your post but I am not sure that the practicalities would work - you would almost need an application/appraisal process which, for a volunteer run site, would be too cumbersome.

 

[MagicJ]

Maybe, over time, we can look to establish a range of 'loan' equipment - we are off to a good start with the light provided by LFSdirect.

 

[Josh M]

I think on a small forum like this it could work on another very popular reefing forum I don't think it would fly but ! I think there should be a specific section where people put forward there request and it is decided once a month by a majority vote ?

 

[marineclass]

I think its a great idea - but as everyone has said, very difficult to exicute. It all comes down to trust. I have been extremely fortunate with my tank set up. I had never kept a salt water fish tank and had no equiptment. When choosing to study the Great Barrier Reef in class, i decided I should set one up as a way of bringing the reef into the classroom. This was a great idea but i didn't realise how much time/money was involved. Due to some very, very generous people, i now have a great 4 foot set up that the kids absolutly love. Yes - it has been put together with mostly second hand parts and there is still a lot of equiptment i need to be properly set up, but i consider myself soooooo fortunate to be donated almost a whole set up and also donated a lot of time/advice to help me. Although the equipment has been amazing and i couldnt do the tank without it, the best help i recieved was advice. People saving me money and telling me not to purchase something that i dont need, and giving me tips on how to keep things running well. Also donations of rock and frags has been greatly appriciated too:)

If I came across someone else who had good intentions for their set up and needed a hand, I would certainly help out as much as I can.

 

[Sarg]

I think it would be easy to run the trickiest part would be the money holding. The reefuge or a mod would be the best people to hold it and may not be willing.

I recon a good idea to would be not to fully fund people's equipment just partly and they could write a grant application stating what they are after, why they need it and how much they already have saved to purchase said item and any other factors that may be relevant to their case.

Getting people to cough up the cash would be the biggest problem plus we don't have that many active members atm either.

My 2c :)

 

[Puffy#79]

Now this is why I started this post because I no how much interest it will get. If we keep rolling ideas we might be Able to get it to fly.
As magic states a lot of members are anonymous for me that would automatically exclude them from being included.
We don't have to do it exactly like I said. It could be just a group of share holders helping each other get there equipment quicker,
Example
$1000 new skimmer
Beats the cheap $150 one he or she has. Man I wish I had a Vertex alpha that will take me ages to save.
Members pay the bulk to a set amount and the guy gets the skimmer quicker.
Quicker being the word because as time goes on that guy will eventually repay the amount for the skimmer, not all of the total but some of it over time. It's almost like interest free minny loans. But at a wholesale amount.
Let's keep this post hot the more suggestion pros and cons I think we could get areal good system going

 

[Puffy#79]

As an add to the above example if that share holder decided to leave the fund early etc we would have to work out his amount given opposed to the amount the share holders gave and work out a a happy medium payout figure

 

[Josh M]

No if I think if they leave "the program" it should be a given that funds donated are left as good will and if you don't like it then don't join....... But that being said if we made it a membership of say $10 a month then that's potentially $3000 a month to be spent on equipment now I know I would be happy to wait 3-4 months or even longer for a really awesome skimmer or light that would take me much MUCH longer to save for mysel.... A $1000-$1500 light might cost me 50-60 worth of membership and the group of donators would decide who gets what each month based more on necessity the desire..... So say my skimmer craps out but puffy WANTS a new light to grow sps then I think I would take precedence..... In the end it all still comes down to trust that people wont take what they want and cancel their membership.....and people beig fair about who goes first....... And if someone gets the shits cause they don't get what they want first then we ask them to leave the program !

 

[slin1977]

I like the idea....What's being discussed here,
Trying to not get too far off topic.
Perhaps a more achievable short term idea is a Frag Pool.
I have some mother colony's of Zoas that I am happy to be shared out now as they have sprouted pups.

 

[slin1977]

Membership to the frag club can go to purchasing some great frags that belong to the club.

 

[NiCd]

The reefing comunity is a pretty tight little one, you end up with mates around the place that will help you and lend you gear in times of need.

I think doing this would encourage free loaders and scammers and in practice dosnt really work out as $5 donations that add up to $1000 and everyone expecting to recieve it at some stage would mean everyone would have to be members for 200 years and I think it would end up in the wrong hands majority of the time.

Id suggest maybe another idea of donating spare used gear, frags, excess live stock etc to youngans or school tanks etc to get them up and running?

 

[Puffy#79]

All ideas are good this is how good things come about. We are obviously now generating ideas to Crete a fab ideA. Nicd is right we need to have a way to resist scammers. Maybe an identification process like licence sighting.
I think if you capped the amount to a reasonable amount like 500
Member pays 5 bucks a month for 6 months before he can make a claim
That's 35 bucks by 100 members give you a 3500 buck kitty straight up that's enough to start and as the months go on the kitty gets up. But as members join they also go on a wait list so 6 mth members can't get something before 12mths ones.

 

[Puffy#79]

I think slins idea will also work as even a seconds account members deal
A similAr principle could be used for the frag gig. Other sites have group buys it would be like that to a degree but better because you actually don't pay full price. Like team work yeah

 

[DavidS]

I have to admit, I'm in agreement with NiCd here. From a moderator perspective, we tend to focus a fair bit on users who tend to take unfair advantage of the goodwill of others, and to be honest, I can already see this getting screwed.Unfortunately it's a one bad apple problem, and it's definitely the type of thing that will spoil an otherwise awesome idea.

I also agree with the idea of donating spare/old gear - if someone mentions they need to borrow something or perhaps are looking for some spare kit because they can't afford to replace/buy something (ie, a dodgy old skimmer is better than none, or an old heater, whatever). The potential donator makes their own decision to do so, or perhaps we look at the pool approach that someone maintains. Don't like the idea of handing over cash. Do like the idea of gifting/loaning old kit to those who need a hand.

 

[Puffy#79]

Keep working it guys we are getting some where here. I'm liking where this is heading.
So we need a way to control scum
We need a person or persons to hold the cash
We need to determine want or need
We need to determine time frame between next gift/donation per member
And also how much per person to sustain a decent kitty.
Look guys I do this similar thing in a bike club, and it does work but the difference is its a club of local members who most I have met personally. We dont necesarilly have to work as oh shit my skimmers shit itself it can work as a I want a new skimmer upgrade principle, because at the end of the day the people involved in the group also pay.
What about we trial it on a smaller basis. For example let's get a group together interested in it and pay 1 dollar a month and buy frags or chemical or small dollar items on a round robin sort of arrangement

 

[slin1977]

Back to the frag club/ library .
Say you could submit say 5 frags to join or say 250 credits to join.
Just throwing ideas out there.