Reef Discussion

[Franklin Dattein]

- WC isn't very effective to reduce high nitrates. Like you already noticed, if there is a nitrate factory they will do pretty much nothing. Also, if nitrate is at 20ppm for example, a 50% WC would bring it down to 10ppm, which is still high.
- I doubt a small bag of Purigen is the culprit. If in doubt, just take the debris out of it.
- My bet is that you are suffering from old tank syndrome, due to substrate being overloaded with detritus.
- I wouldn't think twice before starting carbon dosing these days. The benefits outweigh the risk by a large distance. My personal preference is Vinegar, as it is cheap and does the job very well.

- NoPOX, Zeostart2, etc, advocate they are a superior product, because they mix different sources of organic carbon (methanol, vinegar, sugar, vodka, etc) at an specific balance, which promotes the right bacteria strains, for aerobic and anaerobic nitrate breakdown and phosphate breakdown. This balanced is better described in the Red Sea article above and in Zeovit articles.
In theory, it makes a lot of sense. In practice, I am yet to see or hear, anyone whose had issues with bacteria mono culture, due to a single source of carbon, like Vinegar.

 

[suta42]

JMO, but before you begin carbon dosing make sure you are running a good skimmer and have it dialled in to remove as much bacterial gunk as possible. Otherwise you may end up with a bacterial bloom in the water.

I'd also check up on your water flow in the tank. High water flow helps get crap out of the water column and into the skimmer. Low water flow helps crap settle and provides an ideal environment for the LR and sand to become 'exhausted' in its capacity to act as a nutrient sink.
Finally, i ran a DSB for five years in an old tank and consistently had zero nitrates (not phosphates though). Reason is the DSB worked efficiently as it was set up properly. Not saying do or don't remove it; just some food for thought as there are many ways to synergistically deal with nutrient input and export.

HTH and GL

 

[Savage Henry]

Maybe my coral sand bed was in good condition and not have needed to come out, but maybe yours does as other have suggested. Before I removed mine, my coral sand bed (about 7.5cm deep) had so much life in it, including worms and pods. The worms were in there down deep too. So maybe mine was being maintained by these critters?


I think during the initial cycling of a tank we are suppose to add one fish at a time and monitor for changes in nitrates etc to see whether the tank is handling the increased bioload. Although I am an almost complete failure in the SPS department, I think this is how one would go about keeping SPS (or really any corals) in a tank with live rock and fish. So, if I were you I would seriously consider reducing your live stock and see how the tank copes. Otherwise, I think you are going to become chemical dependent.


On API, I have tested my water side by side with API and RS for KH and Ca. I was a research chemist and I was good at titrations. In my experience, the API and RS consistently gave similar results for KH and Ca. In my opinion, both are adequate for me at my level.

 

[gtrxu1]

As a beginner, can someone please guide me about carbon dosing? From here, biopellet reactor seems to be one of the safest option, although probably the most expensive one.

So I assume this biopellet reactor usually sit in the sump? are they as easy as skimmer installation i.e. assemble and just drop it to one of the chambers in the sump?

I guess, my first question should've been: is anyone running (or have experienced running) biopellet reactor in their system? are/were you happy with it?



My gut feeling is you're right ... most likely it's the deep sand bed ... but I don't think that will alleviate my ongoing issue with feeding (as I need to feed). Need to keep feeding, whilst controlling nitrate to an acceptable level.

Pellets and Liquid Carbon dosing are essentially the same thing with liquid dosing being way less complicated imo. Kinda wish I had stuck with liquid dosing, reactors can be trouble!

I recently started dosing Smirnoff into my nano and the results have been brilliant, the water is crystal clear.

 

[dimitri]

I'm sure all of you experienced reefers have thought about this long ago.

Without dosing, how does one overcome nitrate problem if tank is inhabited by organisms that requires frequent feeding?

Even with frequent massive WC, I am battling a losing battle here.

Hypothetically speaking, how can one keep a tank full of SPSs & Anthias? 1 doesn't like nitrate but if you don't feed frequent enough, the other suffer.

@dimitri @Savage Henry if API kit is that bad, they should stop production now and I tend to agree, I have heard lots of negative things about this test kit, but this is the one I have since the tank start, so being a tight ass, i don't invest more.

check out my journal, i went on Agent M's recommendations, much better test kids

I've just stuck a reactor in with continuum phos media, lets see if that helps after a few days, otherwise it'll be dosing something, Lanthium Chloride worries me, even though forum members recommend it, I'd not trust myself to whipe the tank out being heavy handed.


If you look at the quantity of actual ingredients & nutrients on say 2 little fishies marine snow, its mostly all water, so not sure the filter feeding foods are causing the problem...

frequent WC are not helping either

I'm going to do a Phos test now because we moved the tank today about 2m to the right, stripped it, redid the scape, in prep for the new tank tomorrow, I took the chance to swap out the 3-5mm gravel for finer sand with a large WC.

If i get a reading of 1Phos now, I'm probably going to just effing top myself or go cry into my pillow.


**edit** some progress, 0.75

lets see if the reactor and media helps overnight.

 

[Savage Henry]

check out my journal, i went on Agent M's recommendations, much better test kids

I've just stuck a reactor in with continuum phos media, lets see if that helps after a few days, otherwise it'll be dosing something, Lanthium Chloride worries me, even though forum members recommend it, I'd not trust myself to whipe the tank out being heavy handed.


If you look at the quantity of actual ingredients & nutrients on say 2 little fishies marine snow, its mostly all water, so not sure the filter feeding foods are causing the problem...

frequent WC are not helping either

I'm going to do a Phos test now because we moved the tank today about 2m to the right, stripped it, redid the scape, in prep for the new tank tomorrow, I took the chance to swap out the 3-5mm gravel for finer sand with a large WC.

If i get a reading of 1Phos now, I'm probably going to just effing top myself or go cry into my pillow.


**edit** some progress, 0.75

lets see if the reactor and media helps overnight.

I've been getting phosphate reading of about 0.8 for a while now. I started to wonder whether my test kit is OK. What test kits are you using for phosphates?

 

[dimitri]

I've been getting phosphate reading of about 0.8 for a while now. I started to wonder whether my test kit is OK. What test kits are you using for phosphates?

I used API, then Salifert, then NYOS - the NYOS & Salifert gave the same reading but the NYOS was a bit easier to use and and about 100% better to tell the colour difference...



As of today its down to 0.06(ish) - so slowly moving south with the Continuum reefbasis captivphosw & the new bubble magus BP100

Hopefully it keeps up for a few days and I get some more good news.

 

[potatocouch]

@All, i just got myself a NoPox today and intend to dose 2ml on daily basis for my CADE HL600 (220L).

I understand from the manual, this need to be added to Sump; which chamber should I add this to? Before or after protein skimmer?

Perhaps @Susan Bates ? Thanks!

Apology for such a silly question, i just want it to be safe for everyone in the tank than sorry.

PS: The one with highest flow is overflow chamber, but then this chamber is before protein skimmer ... would the nopox be skimmed before it even goes larger water column?

I have 4 chambers:

1. Overflow
2. Protein Skimmer
3. Live Rocks
4. Return Pump

 

[ReeferRob]

I put mine down the weir so it mixes even more.

 

[potatocouch]

I put mine down the weir so it mixes even more.

Wouldn't that be skimmed prior return to DT? Unless that's the whole purpose? To get the nopox liquid to pass through the skimmer then back to DT?

 

[ReeferRob]

You're not skimming the carbon source, you're skimming the bacteria that feeds on the carbon source.

 

[potatocouch]

You're not skimming the carbon source, you're skimming the bacteria that feeds on the carbon source.

Thanks for the pointer. I will dose in overflow chamber then.

 

[ReeferRob]

I usually split my doses up, 1/2 in the am and the other 1/2 in the PM. That way the alcohols are used and they don't evaporate.

 

[potatocouch]

I usually split my doses up, 1/2 in the am and the other 1/2 in the PM. That way the alcohols are used and they don't evaporate.

With my tank, as per the instruction, i should be dosing approx. 4.5 ml (CADE HL600 = 200 litre minus LRs ... say true water volume is 150 litre).

As per my LFS suggestion, he said to start slow (2 ml per day).

 

[ReeferRob]

I would keep it at 2ml for a week or so. I tried doing more when I cycled one of my QT systems and got slime in the sump.

 

[potatocouch]

I would keep it at 2ml for a week or so. I tried doing more when I cycled one of my QT systems and got slime in the sump.

2 ml is a very thin layer in the red sea measurement cup. I probably need to get syringe injection from the chemist, to get accurate 2 ml everytime.

 

[ReeferRob]

Yea, their measuring cups are pretty worthless below 10ml. Get a 6ml syringe from them.

 

[potatocouch]

Yea, their measuring cups are pretty worthless below 10ml. Get a 6ml syringe from them.

Yup here we go again ... i'm gonna be stamped as another junkie today lol :p

 

[ReeferRob]

They'd only call me a junkie once because they wouldn't have any teeth left to speak with the next time. ;) That kind of shit's uncalled for from anyone, especially professional people.

 

[Susan Bates]

I put mine down the weir so it mixes even more.

I will try that Rob I just put mine in the return part of the sump